Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Aug 22, 2008 17:59:03 GMT -5
OK, every people has their pseudo scientific theories of origin. Croats have their Iranian theory, Serbs have their theories, and let’s not forget the Albanians and their Illyrian theory.
Let’s have some fun and point out different ludicrous Bosniak Origin theories. You can write anything that is in accordance with the rules of this forum. No insults, please.
I'll start first.
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Post by kapetan on Aug 22, 2008 18:06:20 GMT -5
Atlantis was in Bosnia!
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Aug 22, 2008 18:34:36 GMT -5
www.eliznik.org.uk/Bulgaria/history/bulg-map/thracian-tribes-m.htmMy ludicrous origin theory is also proposed by Ivan Franjo Jukic a Bosniak BESSIThe Bessi were an independent Thracian tribe who lived in a territory ranging from Moesia to Mount Rhodope in southern Thrace, but are often mentioned as dwelling about Haemus, the mountain range that separates Moesia from Thrace. Herodotus described them as a sort of priestly-caste among the Satrae, the Bessi being interpreters of the prophetic utterances given by a priestess in an oracular shrine of Dionysus located on a mountain-top, which is thought to be Perperikon. In Strabo, however, the Bessi are described as the fiercest of the independent Thracian tribes, dwelling on and around the Haemus range, and possessing the greater part of the area around that mountain chain. Towards the end of the 4th century ad, Nicetas the Bishop of Dacia brought the gospel to "those mountain wolves", the Bessi. Reportedly his mission was successful, and the worship of Dionysus and other Thracian gods was eventually replaced by Christianity. In the 11th century Strategikon text, Cecaumenos the Byzantine historian described the Vlachs south of the Danube (Aromanians) as being descendants of ancient thracian tribes one of them being the Bessi. In 570, Antonius Placentius said that in the valleys of Mount Sinai there was a monastery in which the monks spoke Greek, Latin, Syriac, Egyptian and Bessian. The origin of the monasteries is explained in a mediaeval hagiography written by Simeon Metaphrastes, in Vita Sancti Theodosii Coenobiarchae in which he wrote that Saint Theodorius founded on the shore of the Dead Sea a monastery with four churches, in each being spoken a different language, among which Bessan was found. The place where the monasteries were founded was called "Cutila", which may be a Thracian name. It has been argued that the name "Bessam" used in the Sinai region could be a corrupt version or alternate name for "Persian", "Slavic", "Iberian" or "Armenian", but there is nothing to indicate that. From M. Orbini: "Za Agrona i Teute Iliri upadaju u Albaniju i ozbiljno ugrožavaju Grèku". Za Dardance kaže da su živeli u Bosni: "dok drugi misle da je njihova zemlja u krajevima gde su danas Serviani i Rassiani". Za Gornju Meziju piše: "to je današnja Servia, a prema drugima, to je Bosna"; ali dodaje: "Na podruèju Gornje i Donje Mezije žive još Tribali i Bessi, od kojih vode poreklo Bosnesi". From Ludovik Crijevic's ’’Poreklo Turaka’’ and Sebastijan Münster's ’’Kozmografija’: Besi življahu u Trakiji u neslozi s Bugarima, koji ih proteraše iz zemlje, te se oni uputiše u gornju Meziju i zauzeše krajeve što se prostiru izmeðu reka Save, Vardara i Drine, te Jadranskog mora. S vremenom se dogodi da slovo E u imenu toga naroda beše zamenjeno slovom O, te od Besa nastadoše Bosi, a po njima zemlja dobi ime Bosna. U zabludi su stoga oni koji tvrde da ime Bosanaca vuèe poreklo od imena reke Bosne, jer pre æe biti da reka dobi ime po tom narodu. From Serbian wiki: Za vladavine cara Augusta, rimski zapovednik Marcije sukobi se s tim narodom, pa uoèi same bitke jedan od zapovednika Mežana, utišavši svoje vojnike, viknu iz sveg glasa dozivajuæi one iz rimske vojske i pitajuæi ih tko su. Kad im oni odgovoriše da su Rimljani, vladari i gospodari naroda, on doda govoreæi: Bit æe tako tek ako nas pobedite. Usprkos tome, Besi ipak zagospodariše tim krajevima, danas znanim pod imenom Bosna. Èesto napadahu susede, a poglavito Ugre, kako piše Jânos Thuróczy u ’’Ugarskom letopisu’’, gde ih naziva Besima, a ne Bosancima. Brojni behu (kako piše Wagrien u 3. knjizi) èasni poduhvati Bosanaca, iako se spomen na to u naše vreme gotovo posve ugasio, buduæi da ne poznavahu pisma, kao što se to dogodi i s drugim Slovenima, niti beše meðu njima uèenih ljudi koji bi mogli zapisati njihovu povest Iz istoga naroda, taènije od Besa koji behu puk slovenski i dadoše ime Bosancima, poteèe Leon, prvi car tog imena, kao što piše Sabellico u 2. knjizi 8. ’’Eneade’’, gde kaže kako neki tvrdi da car taj beše Bes, a ne Grk. Zonara u životopisu cara Marcijana kaže pak da beše Ilir i zove ga velikim Leonom. Dva behu ogranka Mežana u Iliriku, odnosno gornji i donji. Gornja Mezija, prema Johannu Leunclaviusu i Latzu, jest Srbija, dok Cuspinianus kaže da je Bosna. Halkokondil, Latz i Cuspinianus svedoèe da je donja Mezija zapravo Bugarska, usprkos tome što Petanèiæ tvrdi da odgovara podruèju danas zvanom Zagorje. Jordanes Alan naziva obe Mezije Malom Skitijom koja, prema nekim tvrdnjama, obuhvata takoðer i zemlju Besa i Tribala. sr.wikipedia.org/sr-el/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA:Domatrios/%D0%91%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%B8_%D0%BF%D0%BE_%D0%9E%D1%80%D0%B1%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%98%D1%83According to Cecaumenos (Strategicon, in 1066), the Wallachs of Epirus, Thessalia, etc., all came from the north, and were descended from the Dacians and Bessi (Thracians) who dwelt north of the Danube and along the Sava.
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Post by theblackswans on Aug 22, 2008 20:03:27 GMT -5
"Ethnic cleansing as a natural phenomenon Although it was her conception of the biological supremacy of the Serb race and nation which led Biljana Plavsic to encourage ethnic cleansing and on that basis commit mass crimes in B-H, it is equally significant to indicate the national and political model that inspired her in this respect. From the very beginning of the war Plavsic was already invoking Dragoljub-Draza Mihailovic, leader during World War II of the Serb(ian) nationalists better known as Chetniks and a proven collaborator of the German occupiers. 'He fought for the unification of all Serbs within a single Serb state, the borders of which were to run from Djevdjelija [on the Macedonian- Greek border] to Karlobag [two thirds of the way up the Croatian coast]... Uncle Draza intended to cleanse the future united Serb lands of all enemies of Serbdom and Orthodoxy, as well as of anti-national elements.' (Srbija, 3 September 1992) The Muslims are genetically deformed The 'natural phenomenon' of ethnic cleansing, which Biljana Plavsic has so openly and unhesitatingly advocated throughout the war and to this day, is rooted in her conception of the Muslims as a 'genetically deformed' element. 'That's true [i.e. that the Bosnian Muslims were originally Serbs]. But it was genetically deformed material that embraced Islam. And now, of course, with each successive generation this gene simply becomes concentrated. It gets worse and worse, it simply expresses itself and dictates their style of thinking and behaving, which is rooted in their genes...' (Svet, Novi Sad, 6 September 1993). This supposedly respected biologist, with her enviable reputation as a university professor and expert, has been tireless in propagating these 'scientific discoveries' of hers. As a concrete example of her thesis about Muslims being 'genetically deformed material', she has used Ejup Ganic: 'I have never met a more deformed person than him in political circles, which abound with such deformed people.' (On, Belgrade, 12 November 1996). "
How about this great genetics teacher who made these scientific claims against Bosnians?
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Post by bosnjak on Aug 24, 2008 5:44:57 GMT -5
Bosnjaci su svi oni koji nose DNK haplo grupu I ili koji su se mjesali sa tom grupom po ocevoj liniji. Bosnjaci su Iliri vecinski a zatim Slaveni i drugi u vrlo malim skupinama kao sto su Romani,Grci,Kelti, Huni, Saxoni, Turci, Arapi, Perzijci. Pravi ili Bosh-Bosnjaci su u okolici Vranduka do Doboja na sjeveru i do Visokog na Jugu na zapadu do Travnika i na istoku do Srebrenice,Vlasenice i Visegrada. Bosnjaci(sa istim genetickim kodom) su Krajisnici,Posavci i Srijemci, dalmatinski dio Bosne Donji Vakuf, Kupres ,Hlivno, zatim Hercegovci cijeli tok rijeke Neretve i sto je oko toga. Sandzaklije su isto tako pravi Bosnjaci kao i oni u muhadzirluku sa Kosova iz Makedonije i Albanije u Turskoj i ostali po vas Dunjaluku. Bosnjaci su oni ciji su preci bili u centralnom Balkanu od vremena dinosaurusa.
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Post by Novus Dis on Aug 24, 2008 8:01:27 GMT -5
The logic of Muslims who claim that Serbs are Vlachs (from Romania even though the majority of Romanians were Catholic during that period of time) since (as they claim) people within the Balkans rally around religion force me to come to a conclusion that the Muslims in the Balkans were pure blooded Turks since there was no local religion for them to rally under. Of course that logic is as flawed as the belief that Serbs are Vlachs. Still, if the Muslims here aren't going to embrace their Serbdom then I shall call them Turks. Lets look at "Encyclopedia Britannica" before it became infested by political correctness: -Encyclopedia Britannica, 1910, page 281. -Encyclopedia Britannica, 1943, page 341. -Encyclopedia Britannica, 1971, page 983. -Encyclopedia Britannica, 1971, page 983. And now from "Yugoslavia, a Country Study" before it too became infested by historical tampering: -Yugoslavia, a Country Study, 1982, page 16. -Yugoslavia, a Country Study, 1982, page 17. -Yugoslavia, a Country Study, 1982, page 17. "Ethnic cleansing as a natural phenomenon Although it was her conception of the biological supremacy of the Serb race and nation which led Biljana Plavsic to encourage ethnic cleansing and on that basis commit mass crimes in B-H, it is equally significant to indicate the national and political model that inspired her in this respect. From the very beginning of the war Plavsic was already invoking Dragoljub-Draza Mihailovic, leader during World War II of the Serb(ian) nationalists better known as Chetniks and a proven collaborator of the German occupiers. 'He fought for the unification of all Serbs within a single Serb state, the borders of which were to run from Djevdjelija [on the Macedonian- Greek border] to Karlobag [two thirds of the way up the Croatian coast]... Uncle Draza intended to cleanse the future united Serb lands of all enemies of Serbdom and Orthodoxy, as well as of anti-national elements.' (Srbija, 3 September 1992) The Muslims are genetically deformed The 'natural phenomenon' of ethnic cleansing, which Biljana Plavsic has so openly and unhesitatingly advocated throughout the war and to this day, is rooted in her conception of the Muslims as a 'genetically deformed' element. 'That's true [i.e. that the Bosnian Muslims were originally Serbs]. But it was genetically deformed material that embraced Islam. And now, of course, with each successive generation this gene simply becomes concentrated. It gets worse and worse, it simply expresses itself and dictates their style of thinking and behaving, which is rooted in their genes...' (Svet, Novi Sad, 6 September 1993). This supposedly respected biologist, with her enviable reputation as a university professor and expert, has been tireless in propagating these 'scientific discoveries' of hers. As a concrete example of her thesis about Muslims being 'genetically deformed material', she has used Ejup Ganic: 'I have never met a more deformed person than him in political circles, which abound with such deformed people.' (On, Belgrade, 12 November 1996). " How about this great genetics teacher who made these scientific claims against Bosnians? Plavsic said she was shocked when she found about the ethnic cleansing and I cant find a single video of her advocating anything close to a war crime. Your "great genetics teacher" is nothing but a propagandist disguising himself as scholar.
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Post by bosanskinovi on Aug 24, 2008 9:00:59 GMT -5
Whats this vlah blabbering about?
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Aug 24, 2008 9:14:57 GMT -5
BIOLOG NA „BRANIKU SRPSTVA“ Danas, 05.05.2005; Strana: 20
Biljana Plavšiæ - jedna karijera
Dragoljub Todoroviæ Istièe se propagiranjem nacionalne i verske diskriminacije, što kulminira njenim istupima u kojima otvoreno zastupa rasizam. Primera radi navodimo jednu njenu izjavu u tom duhu: „Ja sam biolog, poznajem genetiku i pouzdano znam da su Srbi i muslimani genetski tako strukturirani da ne mogu da žive zajedno.“
1. Serbs are not vlachs, some Serbs are vlachs. 2. Not all vlachs are from Romania. We have are own Romanized population that is also called vlachs. 3. We are not talking about Muslims, we are talking about Bosniaks, so if you intended to insult you failed to insult us, but you probably insulted citizens of Slovenia, Montenegro and Serbia that declared themselves as such. 4. If the above theory of Bosniaks being Bessi by origin is true that would make Bosniaks Vlachs to some degree. 5. Even if we do not take this theory into consideration, considerable part of Bosniak population is in fact of Vlach origin.
As for your Encyclopedia quotes a number of mistakes is extreme. 1. In the first quote it clearly states that their classification is religious. Bosniaks only classified themselves as being of Turkish religion (turske vjere) not ethnicity and nationality. And even your own quote states "Turkish" women. 2. WTF is BOSNITCH? 3. The Bosniak costumes differ between different regions in Bosnia so much that comparing them with Serb costumes is ludicrous. 4. The second quote doesn’t even mention Bosnia and Bosniaks. 5. Some regions in today’s BiH were settled by Serbs. 6. Serbian groups settled the region of present-day Bosnia and Hercegovina during the seventh century but not all of it. Even Croats settled regions in today’s BiH. As did Avars, Romans, Goths, Germans and Illyrians. 7. Bosnian Church was not bogumil in nature. 8. Religious struggle did make the kingdom unstable but that didn’t stop them before when they fought of Serbian, Croatian, Hungarian and Venetian nobles. A power struggle among the Bosnian nobles laid the country open to the Ottoman Turks. 9. At the time of Turkish occupation most nobles were catholic. Even the heads of Bosnian Church didn’t convert to Islam but to Orthodoxy and Catholicism. 10. Not all Christian nobles were killed, Turks even installed a Christian king of Bosnia for a few years. Christian peasants were subjected to oppressive rule much latter especially the orthodox peasants. There was a large influx of catholic peasants from Hungary in the first years of Turkish occupation.
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Post by bosnjak on Aug 24, 2008 10:24:50 GMT -5
I have never heard a bigger load of shite!
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Aug 24, 2008 10:41:04 GMT -5
You know your shit.
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Post by bosnjak on Aug 24, 2008 10:57:32 GMT -5
We talk about Bosniaks. That is a vast topic to explain as the history about it is very rich. To determine about one nation you must take factors that make that nation a nation. In Bosniak case that is their blood,language, culture and religion. It is the same case with others.
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Aug 24, 2008 11:02:11 GMT -5
So? What's your point?
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Post by bosnjak on Aug 24, 2008 12:16:03 GMT -5
Uopce necu da zalazim u to sa tobom!
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Aug 24, 2008 15:48:08 GMT -5
Izgleda da sam potrefio s onim postom o homicima.
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Post by kapetan on Aug 24, 2008 16:33:18 GMT -5
As early as 1530, when the Habsburg official Benedict Kuripe?ic travelled through Bosnia, he was able to report that the country was inhabited by three peoples, One was the Turks, who ruled "with great tyranny" over the Christians. Another was "the old Bosnians, who are of the Roman Catholic faith." And the third were "Serbs, who call themselves Vlachs . . . They came from Smederovo and Belgrade." So important was the Vlach element in the creation of this Bosnian Orthodox population that, three centuries later, the term "Vlach" was still being used in Bosnia to mean "member of the Orthodox Church." Of course, non-Vlach Serbians and Hercegovinans also took part in this process of settlement. The problem of distinguishing them, and of saying what the term "Vlach" meant during this period, will be discussed below. FULL CHAPTER - the vlachs in Bosnia - Noel Malcolm www.farsarotul.org/nl16_1.htm
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Aug 24, 2008 16:50:57 GMT -5
FYI this is wrong. "Vlah" is used by Bosniaks to denote nonmuslims (a.k.a. Serbs and Croats) and is usually used in a derogatory sense.
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Post by bosanskinovi on Aug 24, 2008 16:58:42 GMT -5
FYI this is wrong. "Vlah" is used by Bosniaks to denote nonmuslims (a.k.a. Serbs and Croats) and is usually used in a derogatory sense. I thought Vlahs was just used for Serbs? (derogatory, yes, but also because of the actual connection between them)
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 24, 2008 21:03:55 GMT -5
I havn't learnt anything here and I thought I would. You seem even more confused amongst your "own". Sorry just read "to point out ludicrous theories". Do you want to hear some amazing theories I've heard lolol ?
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Post by SKORIC on Aug 24, 2008 22:04:28 GMT -5
The stalk dropped one in sarajevo and they became the majority in like 2 seconds. I swearr.. i heard it from a friend of a friend of mines dogs vet.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Aug 25, 2008 2:38:47 GMT -5
^^^You have so much time on your hands rofl...:-)
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