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Post by SKORIC on Aug 25, 2008 3:33:56 GMT -5
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Aug 27, 2008 22:26:32 GMT -5
bosnians are mostly illyrian serbian italian and turkish...
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Post by markosijekira on Aug 28, 2008 1:00:04 GMT -5
All Bosnian Muslims do not share the same origin. During the Ottoman Empire, the Porte classified people by religion not ethnicity, and as such the social structure in the empire was set up along religious lines. Ethnicity in the modern sense simply did not matter in the Ottoman lands. Within the empire all the Christians were called Greeks regardless of actual ethnicity. In Bosnia the bulk of the population was Christian, but the Ottoman administrative machine was Muslim, made up of soldiers, bureaucrats etc. The Muslim administrators lived in town and cities, while the Christians lived in the country. There were also Muslim landowners who administered individual regions in the rural areas. The Muslim ruling class in Bosnia was made of various people, actual Turks only made up a small number, most were simply converts from various different backgrounds, but over time, this Muslim ruling class became a distinct social and cultural group.
This social structure was in place in all the Balkan territories. The Muslim ruling elite in the towns and cites and the Christian peasants in the rural areas. What makes Bosnia different is that it was a very strategic area for the Ottomans, and as such it had a much larger proportion of administrators and soldiers (again mostly made up of regional converts) then other parts of the empire in the Balkans.
For example, Belgrade was a predominantly Muslim Administrative center and garrison town, in charge of the Serb region around it. But in the years after the 1804 uprising most Muslims fled or were killed, leaving Belgrade almost Muslim free. Greece had a large Muslim population and much of it native Greek speaking, but they were decimated and in the 1920s all expelled in the great population exchange. The annexation of Bosnia by the Austro Hungarians actually saved the Muslims from the fate that befall the Greek Muslims. Regardless of what backgrounds the Muslims of Bosnia came from, centuries of Ottoman social order fused them into a separate and distinct cultural identity, neither Serb nor Croat,.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Aug 28, 2008 1:20:41 GMT -5
^ Excellent analysis dude.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Aug 28, 2008 1:30:27 GMT -5
whats a bosniak? The muslims from Bosnia in serbia and montenegro deny such a thing exists.
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Demonel
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Post by Demonel on Aug 28, 2008 4:25:34 GMT -5
No, they don't.
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CiKoLa
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Post by CiKoLa on Aug 28, 2008 7:41:13 GMT -5
^^ Yes they do. They say the term Bosniak is made up ... and that the real term is and should be 'muslim'.
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Post by bosanskinovi on Aug 28, 2008 7:53:25 GMT -5
Maybe some do (mostly Muslim Montenegrins who identify with the country... especially after its independence), but most don't.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Sept 3, 2008 10:08:46 GMT -5
bosnian was a tribe name i think or was it?
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Post by kapetan on Sept 3, 2008 15:23:10 GMT -5
Bosona was the Illyrian name of the river which Bosnia gets its name from. Bosna. Serbia and Croatia were named after the tribal name of the people that came there, ours is named after our land (specificly the river).
And here's some info.
The modern Slavic peoples come from a wide variety of genetic backgrounds. The frequency of Haplogroup R1a ranges from 63.39% by the Sorbs, 56.4% in Poland and 54% in Ukraine, to 15.2% in Macedonia, 14.7% in Bulgaria and 12.1% in Herzegovina. Haplogroup R1a may be connected to the spread of Proto-Indo-Europeans.
A new study studied several Slavic populations with the aim of localizing the Proto-Slavic homeland. The significant findings of this study are that:
Two genetically distant groups of Slavic populations were revealed: One encompassing all Western-Slavic, Eastern-Slavic, and two Southern - Slavic populations (Croats, Slovenes), and one encompassing all remaining Southern Slavs. According to the authors most Slavic populations have similar Y chromosome pools - R1a, and this similarity can be traced to an origin in middle Dnieper basin of Ukraine from Ukrainian LGM refuge 15 kya. However, some southern Slavic populations such as Serbians, Macedonians, Bulgarians, and Bosnians are clearly separated from the tight DNA cluster of the rest of Slavic populations. According to the authors this phenomenon is explained by "...contribution to the Y chromosomes of peoples who settled in the Balkan region before the Slavic expansion to the genetic heritage of Southern Slavs..."
12% in Herzegovina, 24% in Bosnia. By comparison Albanians have 9% of it, while Ukranians and Polacks do like 50%-60%.
And to whoever said not all Bosniaks are Bosnian origin, that is true since the during Ottoman times there was migrations from Muslims from Slavonia and even Hungary into Bosnia. Alot of Muslims from elsewhere fled there on several ocasions. But they've been assimilated.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 3, 2008 20:25:10 GMT -5
Babbling madness.
All human beings have a common origin. These 'national' and 'ethnic' lables are merely concepts people hold in their heads and have no true relation to objective reality. There is nothing scientific about an 'ethnic' identity nor is there a 'moral' or 'immoral' group of people hold.
The concepts of national identity come from the same place the concept of gods do , pure imagination and fantasy. It is a form of enslavement in my opinion. In physical reality you are just composed of biological mass, not one atom of you is 'Bosniak' or whatever the hell.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Sept 4, 2008 13:15:29 GMT -5
^ Did you grow up in Great Britain?
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 4, 2008 13:23:10 GMT -5
^ Did you grow up in Great Britain? No
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Sept 4, 2008 13:41:44 GMT -5
^ Where did you grow up?
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 4, 2008 14:41:57 GMT -5
The physical land mass known as the United States.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 4, 2008 14:56:26 GMT -5
Lmao @ how technical and wooden he is with everything. Reminds me of Data from Star Trek.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 4, 2008 15:03:21 GMT -5
Lmao @ how technical and wooden he is with everything. Reminds me of Data from Star Trek. No, its called rationality. If you think the concept of 'Bosniak' has any relevance to objective reality then provide empirical proof. If there is a 'Bosniak' gene with some kind of inherent morality then I will shut up. The claims of ethnicity is just cultural scar tissue and submission to the subjective whims of tyrants. It is unscientific and therefore just mindless drivel when you claim anything based on 'Bosniak' to be true about actual reality. People kill each other for false morality based in 'truth' in race , ethnicity , nationality , faith , etc. It's pure madness.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 4, 2008 15:15:10 GMT -5
Yes, yes we all get it. Unfortunetly it doesn't work in real life. Once humanity is all one and we can hug and fight some alien menace, you better get used to different cultures and ethnic groups existing.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 4, 2008 18:13:44 GMT -5
Yes, yes we all get it. Unfortunetly it doesn't work in real life. Once humanity is all one and we can hug and fight some alien menace, you better get used to different cultures and ethnic groups existing. Actually you're wrong. Over the last centuries humanity has progressed greatly giving up on old superstitions and irrationalities. Eventually people begin to see the silliness in these bogus claims not based on reality. Cultures and ethnic groups don't exist in reality. These are just concepts in people's heads that are the result of psychological abuse typically from childhood. People are a lot more skeptical now a days and have a desire to learn new information. I see the dawn of a new age of rationality coming.
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Post by kapetan on Sept 4, 2008 18:15:51 GMT -5
Cultures don't exist eh? And cultures are the result of abuse? ROFL
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