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Post by terroreign on Mar 23, 2008 1:06:47 GMT -5
Ljuljo is DEFINATLEY a montenegrin name, now you are spitting on the memory of my grandfather's ex-neighbor Lujo , a proud Montenegrin.
And I agree it is not a serb name, but a Montenegrin one, along with Vulash and Gojash (not Gujash you ingrate)
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Post by terroreign on Mar 23, 2008 1:07:29 GMT -5
Ok ok partisan, now that you think you are an expert of Montenegrin names, tell me this, is the name "Ljesh" Montenegrin?
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Post by vucigorski on Mar 23, 2008 1:19:03 GMT -5
"All of those names listed are Croatian in root, except for Grubesa which is of Doclean/Montenegrin extraction"
Oh please......... Radoslav? Petrislav? Mihajlo? Pavlimir? Vladimir? Theyre all Slav names which are found in Serbs as well as with Croats. Dont talk shit Terror...
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Post by vucigorski on Mar 23, 2008 1:20:17 GMT -5
Ljesh does not sound Montenegrin at all.....It sound Albanian.
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Post by terroreign on Mar 23, 2008 1:35:32 GMT -5
lol, yes to you it doesnt sound it, BUT IT IS, and to a real Montenegrin it sure sounds like it!
MiraSH, VulaSH, RadoSH, VujoSH, NikSHA, BalSHA, ect, ect
Btw, Ljes is the birthname of one of Ivan Crnojevic's sons.
History doesn't lie partisan, names like Kresimir (Croat Prince), Silvestor, Tugomir, Krepimir, Tisemir, ect are CROATIAN in origin
Yes some are general yugoslav names, like Vladimir and Mihajlo, but the majority on the list are of Croat extraction.
Stop acting like you know.
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Post by vucigorski on Mar 23, 2008 2:50:14 GMT -5
^^ Majority are found in both Serb and Croat tribed. I wouldnt even care if ive got Croatian blood..............because my mums side already has some Croat family members who are still alive lol.
As ive mentioned it before im a Yugoslav, and to me there are only two Slav tribes in the West Balkans............Croats and Serbs. To be a mix of the two is an honour. Both States and people went through great stages throughout history, except for Croatia in the 20th Century.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 23, 2008 6:33:27 GMT -5
Vuci
Does your book mention Kuci clansmen that migrated to Albania or perhaps Kosova? More specifically, is there a section describing the Drekalovici branch, and a member called Dedli and his seven sons migrating from Kuci to the eastern shores of Lake Shkodra? Also, does the book mention Lalë Drekali/Ljaljo Drekalovic?
Terror
terror, I know you want to be a controversial personality in these forums with your extravagant claims. But for the sake of avoiding confusion to the readers who don't know the region, I will reassure, again, that the name Marash (or Mirash) is Albanian, as is 'Ljuljo' (true spelling is Lul, Luli or Lulo). It comes from the word for flower, lulë. Vulje is a different case. I am not certain of its origin, since Slavs also bear it, e.g. Vulo Radovic who was the serdar of Vasojevic in the 1860s. In Kosova, we find it as a surname amidst Albanians.
The suffixes you just listed (-ush, -ash, -ash)are clearly Albanian. In other words, while Radu or Vujo are Slav names, their ending are Albanian. For example we have Demush, a version of Demë, Prekush for Prekë, Lulash for Luli, Vangjush for Vangjel, etc.
Ironically, the clearly Serbian name 'Milos(h)' is suspected to have been worn by Albanians/Slavicized Albanians initially, due to its suffix signalizing an Albanian tradition. In the Middle Age, the name Milos was almost entirely restricted to Kosova & Montenegro where there was a traditional Albanian presence, as opposed to Serbia.
Llesh is the Albanian diminutive of Alexander.
You gotta be kidding me, right?
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Post by terroreign on Mar 23, 2008 7:13:50 GMT -5
Key phrase here, "to you".
If you read "De Administrando Imperio" the ancient roman scriptures, you'd know that countless numbers of different slav tribes and other ethnicities entered the west balkans, croats and serbs just being 2 of the many
Don't misread me, I'm not trying to be controversial, I just know what I'm talking about and know you're full of it.
Marash and Mirash are both Montenegrin names, going back hundreds of years, the old montenegrin folk song, "Pjevaj Maro" for instance, "Maro" being a shortened form of "Marash"
And Mirash is the birthname of the Mitropolitan of the Montenegrin Orthodox Church, with many shortened forms commonly used in Montenegro today, "Miro", "Mirko"
"Ljuljo" is montenegrin, but the spelling in Montenegro is most often, "Lujo", and I know someone personally by this name, and is a Montenegrin. Now "Lulo" or whatever is a different story, that is not Montenegrin as far as I know, possibly Hawaiian.
Ok now here is where you're wrong again, because "ush" "ash" "osh" are old slavic suffixes, also found in Chechloslovaia and Poland, but mostly found among Montenegrins
This name isn't 'clearly serbian' instead its pretty generally slavic, Czechloslovakians bear the name "Milosh" as well. Obviously Albanians got affected by Slavic influence, as you can see from the Montenegrin names and this.
No, I thought that was Lek, btw you have no older famous figure than we Montenegrins do, named Ljes, so beat it.
"First tomb of Ljes – Aleksa Crnojevic lies with its front just to the west wall. There is epitaph: “Sia ploca despota Stepana voevode mu Ljesa Crnojevica”."
Oh and my mistake, Ljes was Ivan's grandfather actually.
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Post by ljubotan on Mar 23, 2008 10:47:54 GMT -5
Just curious, what Montenegrin tribes are more likely to not have Albanian blood, or are all related to some extent?
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 23, 2008 11:09:29 GMT -5
Them being present in Montenegro doesn't mean they are 'Montenegrin'.
I gave Albanian examples of such endings. You give Slavic examples and I might consider your version of the story.
Both are. Occasionally we have different versions of the same name. Thomas can thus be Thoma or Tomë.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 23, 2008 11:19:45 GMT -5
I don't know. But this really doesn't matter. Intermarriages weren't unknown. Albanians took Slav brides and Slavs took Albanian brides. What's more important are collective transitions/assimilations of entire clans from one ethnicity to another. In this regard, we have to make a distinction between Old Montenegro and Brda. Old Montenegro's clans are almost all with origins from Herzegovina, or atleast they share a great link to that region. The Njegushi were from Herzegovina for instance, and if you ask Aadmin, that region and Montenegro are merely a continuation of the other. Indeed they are quite similiar in many regards. Brda on the other hand has had more contact with Northern Albania, and many Albanian and Brda clans are thought to have shared ancestry. So if you want to search for Albanian blood, that's where you should look. Ironically, Brda is very pro-Serbia generally (Bulatovic was Kuci), with occasional exceptions (just as there are exceptions in Old Montenegro; the psycopath Radovan Karadzic was from there).
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adam
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Post by adam on Mar 23, 2008 12:08:05 GMT -5
Vucigorski,
I've come across some research about Vujosevici. What information do you have about the clan?
Btw, does anyone know what happened to Drekalovic.net?
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Post by toskali4springbrk on Mar 23, 2008 12:19:42 GMT -5
I think Im gonna be sick!
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 23, 2008 13:44:19 GMT -5
I've come across some research about Vujosevici. What information do you have about the clan? Vujaši (Vujoševići), bratstvo u selu Mircu Vujošević, Ubli Ćeklićki (Cetinje) od Buronjića iz Buronja (Bjelopavlići); Jezera Ćeklićka i kao: Petrović = Petropoljac. Od njih su u Cetinju, Prčanju i Savini (Boka Kotorska); Bjelice (Cetinje); Cetinje, ogranak Drekalovića iz Kuča, od kojih su u Lješnici (Gornji Bihor), jedni u Piperima i Zeti; Kočane (Nikšić), a u Podgorici sa Momča (Kuči); Bar (1361. god.) preselili se u Grbalj; Budva; Buljarica (Paštrovići) 1836. god.; Kopilje (Piperi), ogranak Đurkovića iz grane Ljumovića; Momče (Kuči), ranije Otašević, od njih su u Gusinju; Gusinje (u 17. v.) i Gornja Ržanica porijeklom su iz Kuča kao i oni u Podgrad, Orahovo (Kuči) i Dajbabe (Zeta), jedni ogranak Đurđevića iz grupe Mrnjavčića; Ubli; Premići, Zagrad, Momče, Kosor, Doljani, Fundina (Kuči), ogranak Drekalovića, od njih su u Rasovi, Zatonu i Grnčarevu (Bijelo Polje); iz Kuča u Istok (Guraj Mahala) - Metohija; Zagrad (uzeo ženino prezime) - Bijelo Polje; Darza (Ulcinj), jedni su iz Bjelopavlića, a drugi iz Kuča; Jošice, Herceg-Novi; Kotor, po majci; Berane; Podgorica; Bar; Njeguši (Cetinje); Prčanj, Muo i Savina (Boka Kotorska), porijeklom su iz Ćeklića (Cetinje) Vujoševići, bratstvo u Malošinom Dolu Vujoševići (Petrovići), bratstvo na Ublu Vujoševići, bratstvo u Starim Kućištima Vujoševići (Ubljani), na Cetinju Vujoševići, ranije prezime bratstva Gazivoda www.montenegro.org.au/V.html
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 23, 2008 14:00:51 GMT -5
LOL.
There was such a website?
This whole clan issue is quite intriguing. Personally, I am Kastrat. The nucleus of this clan is by Lake Shkodra. But there are also members of this clan in Kosova (including me). I suppose my ancestors must've left the rugged highlands for the sake of pursuing a better life. The Kastrat clan in return hails from a certain Dedli and his seven sons, members of the Ndrekale ('Drekalovici') clan. They lived somewhere between 400-480 years ago.
But the name Kastrat actually preceeds Dedli's arrival. In the 1400s, one Alex Castratius is mentioned in documents. Likewise, although Hoti predominantly descends from one Geg Lazi, but a part of it was/is also anas (indigenous in Albanian). Hoti was also mentioned in the 1300s. And so, it becomes pretty obvious that despite being of the same clan, not all share the same distant roots. Vucigorski with his ancestors from Herzegovina that settled in Kuci are a clear example.
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Post by bordura on Mar 23, 2008 16:21:35 GMT -5
onnie you mentioned this on your post: but a part of it was/is also anas (indigenous in Albanian).
what do you know about anas? I remember my uncle explaining me when I was very young boy saying something for "anas" it has stuck with me. I remember asking him about our family roots. To this day i'm not sure if i remember him saying: they called us anas or we called them anas. My mother is originaly from Kuci in Vlora and the uncle mentioned is her brother. Do you know anything about history of Kuci village in Vlora.?
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 23, 2008 17:28:27 GMT -5
Bordura, I recall to have asked the same question in this board, but I received no answer. Maybe there is not a lot of info re: this issue Aadamin, can you help us?
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 23, 2008 19:24:55 GMT -5
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 25, 2008 11:38:47 GMT -5
onnie you mentioned this on your post: but a part of it was/is also anas (indigenous in Albanian). what do you know about anas? I remember my uncle explaining me when I was very young boy saying something for "anas" it has stuck with me. I remember asking him about our family roots. To this day i'm not sure if i remember him saying: they called us anas or we called them anas. My mother is originaly from Kuci in Vlora and the uncle mentioned is her brother. Do you know anything about history of Kuci village in Vlora.? Anas isn't a reference to a specific population. It just means autochtonous. Many families in Albania and in the Balkans have an oral tradition of coming from somewhere else. For instance, my roots are in the Drenica region in northcentral Kosova. But part of my ancestry came originally from the Gjakovë district, as is evident in their surname. In contrast, anas would be a population with no memory of coming from somewhere else. I cannot say anything about Kuci in Vlora. But I know that this toponym follows the footsteps of the Albanians. It exists as a toponym amidst the Arvanites as well. One explanation might be that inhabitants of Kuci migrated southwards and named their new settlements after their original home. Or, this name might be related to the Albanian word for red ( kuq). It is said that there is a special type of reddish dirt in Kuci (Montenegro). Or perhaps it is a reference to rufosity. In Greece, we have the Arvanite toponym Kriekuqi (redhead).
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Post by terroreign on Mar 25, 2008 15:39:28 GMT -5
Hmm, they are present in Montenegro but not in Albania, think for a second.
I gave you slavic Montenegrin examples, and more examples from Czechloslovakia and Slovakia is "Milosh", "Miklosh" "Alesh" "Leosh"
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