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Post by terroreign on May 6, 2008 19:53:59 GMT -5
All Montenegrins were Catholics before the Nemanjic's invaded Montenegro.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on May 6, 2008 21:58:34 GMT -5
You dont know what i said dont you?
They werent gegs, they migrated from southern albania and from cameria down to athens, they are called Arvanites, they never lived even close to montenegro or even north or middle albania
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Post by terroreign on May 8, 2008 2:53:01 GMT -5
^And how do you know this, its well known Kosovo Gegs migrated to Montenegro and Mali zi e Madhe, as well as south, I dont see your evidence stating otherwise.
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Post by benzino on May 8, 2008 9:21:38 GMT -5
All Montenegrins were Catholics before the Nemanjic's invaded Montenegro. Yeap, they were catholic Albanians. The orthodox Church have assimilated them. Back to the roots ;D
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Post by terroreign on May 8, 2008 12:19:48 GMT -5
^Not really lol
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Post by diurpaneus on May 9, 2008 13:47:55 GMT -5
HAH! Romanian/Vlach!
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Post by worldcit on May 10, 2008 23:18:02 GMT -5
^And how do you know this, its well known Kosovo Gegs migrated to Montenegro and Mali zi e Madhe, as well as south, I dont see your evidence stating otherwise. the arvanites speak tosk dialect while it is geg one spoken by north albanians
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Post by worldcit on May 10, 2008 23:26:05 GMT -5
Marash- mari means creziness in albanian, i marre -crazy, marre like mari ...so Marash is used by catholic albanians a lot. In south of Albania instead fo -ash is used -as ...there are villages in south like Vreshtas, Drithas, Miras, Bucimas, Mirash- mire in alb means good Mirash - a person who is nice, Marash- a person who is kind of crazy, hotblooded, Both names make sense in albanian.
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Post by worldcit on May 10, 2008 23:31:10 GMT -5
terro, everything that is comman like a name or tradition or sth else it was montenigrian and albanians living in vicinity took it from them. For you the other way around is impossible. Do you have any explenation why it is always so?
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Post by terroreign on May 11, 2008 2:20:24 GMT -5
^^worldcit, because if the other way was true than these traits would be known all around albania and not just a SMALL minority of albanians who happen to have some of our names in their lastnames (Vulaj for example)
Why cant I find any albanians with the name Marash then? Any today?
I can list off famous Montenegrins with the name Marash or Mirash, even ones living right now.
For starters a Montenegrin Embassador is Mirash Radovic, or a famous Montenegrin captain Mashan "Masho" Vrbica who fought battles against the turks.
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Post by worldcit on May 11, 2008 10:49:17 GMT -5
terro, I believe that catholic albanians are the purest of albanains less influenced by invadors or other outsiders. I can't say that for orthodoxes or muslems. Living in mountains, being free most of the time they preserved what is originaly albanian. I always thought that montenigrians are closest to northalbanians and i deticate that maybe to a common origin. The fact that montes have been heavily slavisied in language and suffering a religion transformation is an indicator that you have been more opened to changes, to adopting the others traditions while the catholic albanians were uninfluetinalbe. I am not saying that you got those names from us but I can't say the oposite....maybe they common because of same distant origin. You are asking why these name are not used in other parts of albania. I am asking why these names are not used among the serbs. You got to admit they are your closesests in terms of language religion maybe other traditions.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 11, 2008 13:43:42 GMT -5
^^worldcit, because if the other way was true than these traits would be known all around albania and not just a SMALL minority of albanians who happen to have some of our names in their lastnames (Vulaj for example) Why cant I find any albanians with the name Marash then? Any today? I can list off famous Montenegrins with the name Marash or Mirash, even ones living right now. For starters a Montenegrin Embassador is Mirash Radovic, or a famous Montenegrin captain Mashan "Masho" Vrbica who fought battles against the turks. What are you talking about? Marash and Mirash are still used by Albanians and have been so for qute some time. The famous warrior Marash Uci, son of Ucë Mehmeti, was one of the heads of the Albanian forces that defeated the Montenegrin forces under Marko Miljanov near Helm, at Rzhanica bridge. Another known leader was Kolë Marash Vata Gojcaj. Ending in - ush and - osh reflects an Albanian influence, just lke - us or - os are typical of the Latin & Greek spheres. It's sometimes used to designate something smaller, like your -vic (Petrovic would thus mean 'Little Peter' as in Peter's son, or Peter Junior); it can still be used in speech, such as lepurosh instead of lepur (rabbit) or Babush instead of Babë (father) etc.
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Post by terroreign on May 11, 2008 13:50:40 GMT -5
^^Ok Marash, and those guys are from the north with influence from Montenegrins
This Marash Uci probably was intermixed with Montenegrins anyways
Hell I can find locations in Northern Albania which have names with "Bog" or "Vuk" in them, kind of wierd huh?? Shows we were present even there.
Now you still didnt show a recent example for Mirash, or Mashan, both Montenegrin names...
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 11, 2008 14:33:09 GMT -5
Yeah, that's why he was your nightmare. Locations? You're speaking of Boga and Vukli, right Boga is probably a corruption of bokë, meaning unferile rocky ground. But yes, there is an amount of Montenegrin influence. Unlike you, I don't claim everything to be original and autochtonous. We have influenced you and vice-versa; Montenegrin names like Maras or Dedic reflect Albanan influence, while Albanian names like Vuksan or Bogdani reflect a Montenegrin/Slav influence. You also have the Vlach influence .. evident in personal names like Paun, or oronyms like Durmitor. www.unicef.org/albania/sq/reallives_2472.htmlThe guy the article speaks of is named Marash Fili.
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Post by terroreign on May 12, 2008 0:51:30 GMT -5
Many battles in Montenegro were between Montenegrins...
Everyone has influences donnie, that is natural, just telling you that names like MIRASH or MASHAN are Montenegrin, period.
I mean i recognize montenegrin last names like Kastratovic or Skenderi have Albanian influence, but personal names that are Montenegrin are Montenegrin.
Okay we share some names, note that I was speaking of MIRASH and MASHAN, not Marash
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 12, 2008 6:40:12 GMT -5
Yes, but this battle was between Albanians and Montenegrins.
I haven't heard of Mashan. But Mirash & Marash are also used by Albanians. Now they mightbe 'Montenerin' in the sense that they are used by Montenegris, but it isn't exclusively Montenegrin as it is also present among Albanians. In Kosova there's also a mountainous passage near Prizren known as "Gryka e Marashit" (Marash's passage).
If we speak about the name's origins, then, as I said earlier, I believ it looks quite Albanian judging by the -sh sound at the end whch is so typical of Albanans, i.e. Prekush, Demush, Lulash, Gjinush, Agush, Prentash etc.
P:s Is the name of Marash/Mirash widelly used among Croats and Serbs?
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Post by benzino on May 12, 2008 13:43:31 GMT -5
svi ste vi albanci, albanija do tokija lol
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Post by terroreign on May 12, 2008 15:28:24 GMT -5
Not at all
Ok, for Marash I agree with you, Mirash is more prominent with Montenegrins though, considering even the Head of the Montenegrin orthodox church's birth name is Mirash.
Well not just albanian but Montenegrin as well, names like "Tomash" "Gojash" "Djurash" "Vulash" all follow the same kind of trait.
But I notice with Montenegrin names the ending -sha is very common too
"Balsha" "Niksha" "Perisha" "Markisha" "Stanisha"
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Post by julius on May 14, 2008 19:37:02 GMT -5
One of our historians says that the Kuci clan today living in Montenegro, was first catholic and albanian clan. when the capital of othododoxy moved in Pec and that region they were living was given to orthodox church, they switched from catholicism to orthodoxy in the same time loosing their alb being.
Now, we have to see if this is true in our case and when this guy's family converted.
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Post by captainalbania on May 15, 2008 9:30:28 GMT -5
Kuci means "Red" in Albanian.
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