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Post by Arxileas on Oct 18, 2007 22:58:45 GMT -5
I read the article Arxhileas, and what I liked best was: At first, Michael allied with Boniface of Montferrat, but having lost Morea (Peloponnese) to the Franks at the battle of the Olive Grove of Koundouros, he went to Epirus, where he considered himself the Byzantine governor of the old province of Nicopolis and revolted against Boniface. Epirus soon became the new home of many Greek refugees from Constantinople, Thessaly, and the Peloponnese, and Michael was described as a second Noah, rescuing men from the Latin flood. John X Kamateros, the Patriarch of Constantinople, did not consider him a legitimate successor and instead joined Theodore I Laskaris in Nicaea; Michael however turned his attention to capturing other strategically important Latin-held towns, including Larissa and Dyrrhachium. He also took control of the ports on the Gulf of Corinth. In 1214 he captured Corcyra from Venice, but was assassinated later that year and was succeeded by his half-brother Theodore. Now you tell me: what an Empire mean?? Who inhabitates an Empire? Why is there an "official" language and other languages? Because of coincidence? ?? What don't you understand? That there is no Albania mentioned? be more specific. Or that it shows just maybe that there was Greeks then like Gergios Kastriotis Really don't get how people actually mistake a half Greek and half Serb as an Albanian? Silly me only propagandists " slap " off course it's very clear to me now. " Rolles Eyes " You seem to have a problem grasping what assimilation, Illegal immigrants and many more things actually mean. Why is that?
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 19, 2007 0:25:56 GMT -5
Arxhi here is the best example of an "internet-grown intellectual". If you read about the Despotate youll see that the Byzantine nobles who formed it did it through various alliances with numerous Alb tribal leaders that inhabited and ruled areas all over Epirus. When these alliances brokedown, so did the Despotate...
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Post by Arxileas on Oct 19, 2007 0:34:06 GMT -5
Toska / formerly known as melty you just keep following me around and you'll be a sucker in no time I mean it's not that i was once formerly known as melty so relax dude and start looking a bit smarter chum by confirming your facts with reliable sources, or continue looking like a wanna be Greek. If you follow / try and copy Greek heroes and Greek history = Eise gamoton Ellinas ;D Cheers kid. ;D ;D ;D
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 19, 2007 0:40:42 GMT -5
Why should I start? Your way behind... Sorry, but my word technically is just as reliable as anything that an internet website says, especially Macedoniaontheweb...
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 19, 2007 0:47:00 GMT -5
Btw, Im 400 miles away from my personal book shelves, so direct quotations are not an option for me.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 19, 2007 21:41:53 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Äåí èá ãßíåéò Åëëçíáò ðïôÝ, ñå ðïõóôé ÁëâáíÝ[/glow]
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 19, 2007 23:35:42 GMT -5
Arxhileas, The term "despotate" is a misnomer, as the first rulers of Epirus did not hold the court dignity of despotes, which was in any case not a hereditary title associated with any particular jurisdiction.So we have the FIRST RULERS OF EPIRUS who DID NOT hold the court of Despotes.........what did they hold? Were they Greek clans? Or Greek States as stated there? If were Greek states, had they any King or Ruler or whatsoever? (Sorry my ignorance) And then again: The Despotate was founded in 1205 by Michael Komnenos Doukas, a cousin of the Byzantine emperors Isaac II Angelos and Alexios III Angelos. At first, Michael allied with Boniface of Montferrat, but having lost Morea (Peloponnese) to the Franks at the battle of the Olive Grove of Koundouros, he went to Epirus, where he considered himself the Byzantine governor of the old province of Nicopolis and revolted against Boniface. Epirus soon became the new home of many Greek refugees from Constantinople, Thessaly, and the Peloponnese, So one year later after the proclamation of the name, we have the Greek refugees comming!!!!!! And what this word "Considered" is doing here? Is that because he was claiming something he had lost? (Especially after his marriage with that Hungarian Queen or something if I am not wrong?) And taking a careful look on the map, I DO recognize writen there ALBANIA!!!!!!!! Can you see it? ? So clarify me please what is it??? How do I get the meaning of it??? What was it before: Isaac II Angelos? And is that map old or new? Info: Angelus (Greek: ÉóáÜêéïò Â’ ¢ããåëïò, Isaakios II Angelos) (September 1156 – January 1204) was Byzantine emperor from 1185 to 1195, and again from 1203 to 1204. His father Andronikos Angelos was a son of Theodora Komnene, the youngest daughter of Emperor Alexios I Komnenos and Eirene Doukaina. Thus Isaac was a member of the extended imperial clan. What I want to know is what was before that? I mean before 1000??? Thank you.
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Post by leandros nikon on Oct 21, 2007 3:34:16 GMT -5
Epirus was greek since the beggining...it was a region that belonged to the greek world,the greek culture...this despotate was another greek phase in it's history...if albs are the descendants of the illyrians,illyria is located at the north of Epirus.Even the name epirus is greek,together with almost all the epirote city and people names...
the sad thing was that this region was isolated from the advanced greek south and also that the neighbors ;D were attacking and looting often...it was culturally backwards compared to the south but so was thessaly and aetolia...
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Post by ahristos on Oct 21, 2007 9:39:57 GMT -5
pios askolite me aftus pu dulevun me merokamato mi lefkon anthropon=25€ ke kato horis IKA parakalo=sklavi ton afentadon ante stilte ta pedia sas sto skolio tulahiston min mimiste tus giftus
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 21, 2007 12:20:02 GMT -5
Epirus was greek since the beggining...it was a region that belonged to the greek world,the greek culture...this despotate was another greek phase in it's history...if albs are the descendants of the illyrians,illyria is located at the north of Epirus.Even the name epirus is greek,together with almost all the epirote city and people names...
the sad thing was that this region was isolated from the advanced greek south and also that the neighbors were attacking and looting often...it was culturally backwards compared to the south but so was thessaly and aetolia... I truly want to beleive it! But I have dilemmas...how Albs. assimilated Epiriot Greeks? ? Is a little hard to comprehend the assimilation (remember that egg thing??? I mean...the Albs. with no culture and "barbars" to assimilate "Greeks" of Hellas, cradle of civilisation??!!! Could that have really happened ?? Unless...Greeks came as COLONIZERS (Apollonia) and assimilated Albs. PS: in that map, a certain Albania does appear...but...a certain GREECE doesn't!!!! That's why...it was a little weird for me and untrustable!!!!
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Post by leandros nikon on Oct 21, 2007 13:54:46 GMT -5
just believe it kid... albs assimilated whom?anyway,before Alexander's period there were some epirote tribes with illyrian influences indeed...they had some sort of illyrizein behavior...but,when the hellenistic empire of Phillip and Alexander was born,things changed and the thracoillyrians of epirus and macedonia were hellenised...you see nobody can resist to the assimilating influences of Hellas,no matter what century... ;D it is a fact though that there were some thracoillyrians in epirus and macedonia both.These regions were located at the borders of the Hellenic world and some minorities were logically there...Also you may know about the presence of some greek colonies in Illyria,such as Epidamnos,Apollonias,Phoenice etc... Finally allow me to repeat that greeks of epirus and macedonia were much less advanced than the greeks of the south...that's why some athenians even called them "barbarians"...their golden period begun after the peloponesian war,which was the end of the classical era and the beggining of the hellenistic civilisation/empire... which map?
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 21, 2007 14:16:00 GMT -5
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Post by leandros nikon on Oct 21, 2007 17:21:04 GMT -5
yeah,our medieval name wasnt greece or hellas...(greece was NEVER our choice,that's how foreigners call us).The name was romeoi,meaning romans...that is why you read no greece over there...btw,we still use the name romios,smthing which connects us to our medieval empire... but the map clearly states that every vyzantine state was greek,no?
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Post by leandros nikon on Oct 21, 2007 17:32:30 GMT -5
It's very interesting what aadmin says here...
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 21, 2007 17:48:50 GMT -5
No offense to Aadmin, but his way too ideologically minded to be of any value here. He has it his interest to make things Greek as far up to his native montenegro so he can feel closer to it.
There is no evidence that southern Illyrians(outside of some mixed nobility) were infact fully hellenized since the general population does not have a voice.
As for Albania remaining "hellenophone" until the Turks, that ignores the fact that Albanians warlords and chiefs had created states and kingdoms as far down as Thessaly and Aetolia. Not to mention the waves of migrates that poored into the southern Balkans. The fact that Albanians were immigrating and settling in so many places outside of Albania(including Macedonia, Epirus, Morea etc. etc., not to mention Italy and even more northern yugoslav lands), shows that most of Albania was infact Albanian dominated.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 21, 2007 18:57:36 GMT -5
"yeah,our medieval name wasnt greece or hellas...(greece was NEVER our choice,that's how foreigners call us).The name was romeoi,meaning romans...that is why you read no greece over there...btw,we still use the name romios,smthing which connects us to our medieval empire..."
That's why I wrote this fragment is somehow weird:
"The term "despotate" is a misnomer, as the first rulers of Epirus did not hold the court dignity of despotes, which was in any case not a hereditary title associated with any particular jurisdiction".
So, what did the inhabitatnts of Epirus call themselves??? What was their choice? Wasn't it how Greeks named the place when they first arrived? And isn't the Despotat itself a creation later on???
"but the map clearly states that EVERY vyzantine state was greek,no?"
I really have to take a careful look on that map to discover the Greek - when you just told me that Greek name didn't exist!!!! But in fact it does???
Maybe is my foult not to comprehend this confusion...I am getting old...lol...
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Post by ahristos on Oct 21, 2007 22:46:29 GMT -5
kasandra u need ftyari for 25 € per day and after this u can feel a real albanian
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Post by leandros nikon on Oct 21, 2007 23:17:51 GMT -5
epirotes called themselves...epirotes!!!if u see any ancient coin of epirus-they r all greek - u will read the inscription "apeirwtan ",which means,u know what... try harder and read "greek despotate of Epirus"...also,dont play with words...we did exist and we did control Epirus,either u like it or not... i supose we cannot doubt the presence of albanians in epirus back then,especially north... or,if you question the greek dominance during the hellenistic or byzantine era,u r nothing but a hypocrit,i guess...our people probably co-existed...but if we wonder which civilisation was the dominant in the region,u just have to see albania's flag or scandenberg's seal... yes,the byzantine was...
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 22, 2007 1:06:52 GMT -5
"we did exist and we did control Epirus,either u like it or not..."I know that perfectly and I've never doubted it. Epir (as Geographic nation) was DOMINATED (call it controlled) by Hellen culture and colonizers, but was not completely HELLENISED... (thus the coin as a mean to facilitate the trade process within the Empire) So Albs. and Greeks (or Hellens..) indeed lived together in... that piece of land called Epirus... As per the seal of Skenderbeg...there is more plenty written in there... And as per the flag...here I am again asking the same question for the thousand time: why didn't Greeks keep that flag but changed it? Even Montenegro has that flag nowdays...!!! The flag which symbolized an EMPIRE, including many other nationalities (tribes, principats) which co-existed...Albs. were part of this very Empire too, same as Greeks and Romans. (And others perhaps) Flag-Eagle = two parts of the same Empire - in essence - Greeks (Hellens) were members of Byzant Empire same as Albanians were! (Or should I say Illirians and open a new dispute also discussed thousands of times) ....but what was BYZANT?...PART of Roman Empire! As simple as that! Should Italians say: we controled Byzant like it or not? Or even worse: You ALL were Romans (hence Italians? ) PS: I am not playing with words. I am just trying to have a fair discussion.
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Post by leandros nikon on Oct 22, 2007 7:31:16 GMT -5
very well,girl...it seems that we can communicate easier than with other alboz... the 2 headed eagle,yes,it's not our national flag...our flag's origin is from the greek revolution period...but the greek orthodox church AND the army,use the 2headed eagle today...oh,also 2 football teams,PAOK and AEK... ;D as a matter of fact,the byzantines used the eagle with a red background as their military flag and with a yellow background as their church flag...Scandenberg's flag was a version of the byzantine military flag...
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