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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 4, 2005 14:34:40 GMT -5
Something from old forum archives (to spice it up in a new forum) ----------
Fieraku:
Well, i think i have seen everything, from insults to insults so i am not surprised anymore as i was before when i reacted in the same manner. I am just becoming apathetic now, that's no good.
Now as the question is self-explanatory, i just want to hear your opinions and real-life examples. Despite my dislikes for greeks most times, i find myself connected in some ways with them. Although i feel like our foreign policies have taken wrong turn in the beginning and the wheel now is rolling. I dont think it will get better but it will remain in a constant state without passing the line into getting in serious conflict. Just small provocations. My questions to you are.. Do you think media has exaggerated our "relations"? What role do they play in this? Most important does it interest others and maybe ourself for us to be in this way? Do we understand each other enough? always talking in general without pointing finger at no one.
iapetus72: Re: Are albs+greeks closer than media portrays it? -------------------------------------------------------------- Well indigenous 'Albanians' in my eyes are viewed as Epirots, or have come from the ancient Epirot stock. South Albanians and Greeks are brothers. Unfortunately due to WW1 and nationalsim things changed and both govts tried to build a nation without seperatist actions. Hence various indoctrination methods were needed so both people can build their nation. Once upon a time both people were exactly the same, now they are similar but different only due to different education and indoctrination. kapshtriqi: Re: Are albs+greeks closer than media portrays it? ------------------------------------------------------- In my view we can have good relations not just because we might be you or you might be related to us. The main reason why we need good relations is because today it's 2004.Look back and at every point in the past there has been some kind of war+friction in the area.
Fighting makes no sense anymore.I personally favor good relations with every neighbour albania has because it's in our best interest.
And so should every other mentally sane balcanian.
***Working to de-Ahristorize the Balcans***
iapetus72: Re: Are albs+greeks closer than media portrays it? ------------------------------------------------- I don't know about you but I have difficulty relating myself with an African or a Saudi Arabian. Having common ancestory makes relationships easier as it makes communications easier through sharing the same interests & opinions which is impossible with an African or Saudi Arabian. Sure what you say is romantic it is 2004, yes we are in 2004 but Greece has its own way of dealing with things.
Greece winning a seat on the Security Council for 2005 and 2006 with 186 votes out of 189 votes indicates to me the world trusts and backs Greece to the tilt. if Albanians do not want to find a common ground with the Greeks then I am afraid nothing will change in Albania. Just because Greece does things differently to Albania does not mean it is wrong, the world certainly doesn't believe so.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Feb 4, 2005 14:39:40 GMT -5
albquietman: Re: Are albs+greeks closer than media portrays it? ------------------------------------------------------- Quote: ----------------------------------------------------------------- Now as the question is self-explanatory, i just want to hear your opinions and real-life examples. -----------------------------------------------------------------
Real life examples...first time when I went in Greece, I thought that I'll find a different world...yes it looked different to me the first months, when I couldn't speak even a word in greek... but still the way that those greeks that I met, spoke their language, remembered me something of my country...was the same passion when they where talking, the same way of using hands and mimic when talking, and believe me or not, that was my way of understanding of the greek language in my first months there.
After, when I learned greek, I saw that greeks were just like us, almost in everything, except the language of course...and by the way, most of us albanians there, especially us that used to work in high qualified jobs, greeks didn't even think that we were albanians...or they didn't want to, because that was against the opinion that existed in Greece back then, and unfortunately still exist today...
What do I think and what I've seen in Greece is that the average greek deep inside considers albanians like every other greek, but the media in Greece does a dirty job, and that's because of some extremist nationalists and...yes, they want to sell newspapers and the TV channels want to be watched...and someone has to pay for that...they don't care as long as they make money...
I just want to clarify something...if greeks consider us genetically close (which is true by the way), we albanians in Greece, at least at the time that I used to live there, didn't see it as a favor...by the way, aren't we all humans no matter where we come from?
"Deal with Reality, or Reality will Deal with You."
apollon GRE: Re: Are albs+greeks closer than media portrays it? ------------------------------------------------------ It is nice you bring this up Fieraku especially in such a honest and straightforward fashion. I'm glad because this way you give the opportunity to teach each other these "sensitivities" that one has to understand and respect for one another in order to comprehend the situation more in depth.
Yes, maybe racially there is some connection, at least with some albanians (except for some that look distinctively different - in this forum I learned you call ghegs - red hair triangular face). There might be also some similarity with the not so distant past of a greek from the countryside. The urban greek may feel a little more "developed".
Anyway, one thing to know is also that greeks commonly spot differences! I'm not sure about the reason. Maybe some illusive idea of absolute homogeneity! Yet, after a couple of years in US you 're called american. If you are greek american then you are a different "species" ... Even more ... to cap the drama of the more than a million refuges from Minor Asia in 1922, they treated the new comers as lower class people, in many cases exploited them, their neighborhoods were like ghettos ... and so on ... There might be some excuses but still.
A greek, at least until my generation, had a unique way of being brought up in the middle of two worlds. The east and the west. On top of this, you throw in the subconsious influence of the ancient pagan world combined with a fear of god and urge for humility stemming from the church. The result is to feel very lonely and misunderstood when with non-greeks. They say "europeans" without including themselves! They say "balkanians" without including themselves! They admit the "mediterranean" similarities but somehow there is no easily a blending. My experience is that behind a "full of @#%$" sometimes attitude there is a sensitive person desperate to trust and open up. To be petted and to be loved like by his mama. Maybe greeks are too spoiled. Maybe they are blessed to have grown up experiencing unconditional love from their family, from the church, who knows where ... and when someone comes to threaten that condition, someone who is not intuitively trusted, someone who not only hurts their feelings, but also do not automatically understands them, then they start calling him a "different". Even in this forum it is common to see doubting the "greekness" of other greeks.
Of course this description may sound to you very familiar. Maybe like an albanian. To me albanians seem somehow more hot-headed! Almost suicidial, like a ram hitting its head on the wall. They jumb into trouble without thinking. As I said, it doesn't take much to feel alien to a greek ...
From all I said, maybe the best example is to look at the 1922 situation. It took many decades until the two "greeks" merged. Maybe it will take also some decades (or even less) for the albanians in Greece to merge with the greeks.
You mention a lot the media. I'm not sure if they do things on purpose. Maybe sometimes, but mostly they probably just speak their minds. I think in a way it is very nice to feel "home" and be able to speak your mind and assume eveybody thinks like you, or doesn't mind, and you are not misunderstood. In many ways greeks had achieved this homogeneity (even if peer pressure was always huge and overwritting), and it is heart breaking to give it up
kassandri: Re: Are albs+greeks closer than media portrays it? ---------------------------------------------- According to my knowledge regarding the history of the Balkans, It's the religion which have's split us Greeks and Albanians., We used to fought on same side and inter-married among our self.,
Ali Pasha Tepelena had plans to create an Greek-Albanian state, I wonder if that could work?, at least at that time.,
I'm against the total claim of Greeks on anc. Epirus and anc. Makedonia., Every events in anc. Epirus and anc. Makedonia is at much Illyrian as it is Greek.,
I wonder if anc. Greeks and Illyrians had problems living in same place together?
In my opinion, Greeks and Albanians are brothers., Brothers do fight, just take a look on you'r own family if you have brother who you have got angry many times but still you can't hate him.
To create a better relationship, the south Albania should be called aslo Epirus and the Albanians Epirtos along with Greeks and north west of Greece., Our forefathers in that area called them self so and so did the Greeks so why not have a word for both Greeks and Albanians in South Albania and North West Greece where anc. Epirus is placed.
IonianPirate: Re: Are albs+greeks closer than media portrays it? ------------------------------------------ If you think rationally ,Albania and Greece have no conflictual interests in the Balkans. Both nations have their own economical, national and cultural aims,in different levels, and cannot afford a "cold war" clime. The worst period in alb-greek relations was the 90'. The opinion that both peoples created for each other was (and still is) strongly determined by the presence of a large number of albanian emigrants in Gr and all the social and economic consequences that may have caused. Despite the problems, it seems that the albanians in Gr are actually the better integrated community and friendship between heteronational individuals of is quite commun. I beleive the stereotypes are slowly going to fade out and much better times of cooperation and peaceful coexistance will come.
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Post by myzeqari on Oct 12, 2007 10:57:54 GMT -5
Greek are nicer peeoples. dey dont bother other peeples in general and dey are seen as hard workers and industrious as an immeegrant group.
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 13, 2007 18:49:33 GMT -5
The people in general are not close, its the individuals. It will always been this way.
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Post by ahristos on Oct 15, 2007 10:27:57 GMT -5
yiassas pedia eftasa drimiteros
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 15, 2007 21:04:49 GMT -5
Yassou Ahriste!! ;D
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 15, 2007 21:18:47 GMT -5
Are albs+greeks closer
albanian nation was a greek creation under ottomann,venetian occupation balkan wars albania become an anti hellenic independent state
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 15, 2007 23:41:01 GMT -5
albanian nation was a greek creation
Not quite: you mean Hellenic? What GREEK CREATION are you talking about? CREATION? lol...COLONIZERS perhaps?
under ottomann,venetian occupation balkan wars albania become an anti hellenic independent state I am astonished...how is that possible?? Why would they do that?!!!! For no reason? Why didn't Spartans for example become...Indonesians??? ONLY who is NOT hellen would addmit NOT being Hellenic. And Albanians weren't Hellenic tribes...were totally different ones. And chose to maintain and protect it despite the Great HELLENIC culture and influence...for a simple reason: they were ALBANIANS/. So, they didn't chose to become neither Turks nor Greeks, but to maintain their identity for the abovementioned reason: for what they WERE. And who told you Albanians are anti-HELLENIC??? They simply want to be recognized for what they are... But Greeks and Albanians ARE indeed closer to each-other since have been geografically CLOSED to each-other in centuries...Either we like it or not! Otherwise...I can't explain it...
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Post by ahristos on Oct 17, 2007 10:51:10 GMT -5
ai bith kafshe
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Post by leandros nikon on Oct 17, 2007 12:49:13 GMT -5
there was a fight between 2 alboz a few days ago...it ended with a murder...how did this start?each one of them claimed that his village was more beautiful than the other's village...yes,alboz r not greeks indeed...
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 17, 2007 18:18:03 GMT -5
Nice to see that Albs still keep to their traditional headstrong character...
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 17, 2007 23:40:20 GMT -5
Btw, I dont know where to throw up in disgust or admire the man, but the founder of the Albanian state, Ismail Qemali, was married to a Greek woman and sent his two children to Greece for education... He was also a philhellene.
So... you guys have the Arvanites, we have leaders who have a thing for Greek women.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 18, 2007 0:34:17 GMT -5
take a look to the map "[glow=blue,2,300]Greek Despotat of Epirus[/glow]"
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Oct 18, 2007 3:50:37 GMT -5
edit
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Post by ahristos on Oct 18, 2007 8:03:03 GMT -5
those turkalbanians are asians we won turks 1-0 and we have kick them from eurocup oleeeeeeeeeeee we m number oneeeeeeee
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 18, 2007 11:18:30 GMT -5
take a look to the map "
You think I would trust a map??? What was written in Kosovo's map? Ex-Yougoslavia and Serbia! Does it make Kosovars Serbs? It meant - same as your map = that it was governed by Greeks (Despotat of Epirus - or better - Greek language was used as official one) and in Kosovo that was run by Serbs and Serbian language was used. It doesn't make those people Serb!!!!!!
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Post by Arxileas on Oct 18, 2007 17:44:39 GMT -5
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 18, 2007 20:23:00 GMT -5
I read the article Arxhileas, and what I liked best was: At first, Michael allied with Boniface of Montferrat, but having lost Morea (Peloponnese) to the Franks at the battle of the Olive Grove of Koundouros, he went to Epirus, where he considered himself the Byzantine governor of the old province of Nicopolis and revolted against Boniface. Epirus soon became the new home of many Greek refugees from Constantinople, Thessaly, and the Peloponnese, and Michael was described as a second Noah, rescuing men from the Latin flood. John X Kamateros, the Patriarch of Constantinople, did not consider him a legitimate successor and instead joined Theodore I Laskaris in Nicaea; Michael however turned his attention to capturing other strategically important Latin-held towns, including Larissa and Dyrrhachium. He also took control of the ports on the Gulf of Corinth. In 1214 he captured Corcyra from Venice, but was assassinated later that year and was succeeded by his half-brother Theodore. Now you tell me: what an Empire mean?? Who inhabitates an Empire? Why is there an "official" language and other languages? Because of coincidence? ??
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 18, 2007 22:09:10 GMT -5
who give a FucI< if the albs and greeks are closer we dont care about it !!!!
the greek special force gives you a clear message what we think about you ;D
Greek government retained a cease-of-fire and did not formally lift the state of war against Albania
Human right violation against Vorio Epirotes is an [glow=red,2,300]Alert[/glow] to take action Cassus Belli against Albania
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Post by Teuta1975 on Oct 18, 2007 22:34:31 GMT -5
who give a FucI< if the albs and greeks are closer we dont care about it !!!!It may be true! the greek special force gives you a clear message what we think about you They already have with their military song... Greek government retained a cease-of-fire and did not formally lift the state of war against AlbaniaIt is unfortunatly true Albs. need a strong hand to be forced upon!
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