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Post by chalkedon on Oct 5, 2009 7:46:11 GMT -5
and another thing that disppointed me about karamanlis. Tassos papadopoulos told him to join EOZ of cyprus and greece together. Karmanlis said " NO ". That is something Giorgakis would of done....not karamanlis. So you see, you never now what can happen.
Also, Karamanlis did not activly engage Greece's foreign policy....we were mere spectators in the international arena. The turkish FM is traveling all over the place pushing his ideas and making his country a force to reckon with.
That is the truth....
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 5, 2009 7:52:50 GMT -5
We will see what Giorgakis will do. You say you dont expect much...thats not fair...since from this perspective you will praise him in the end much easier than Karamanlis. If you voted for him..expect a lot. That would be only fair compared to Karamanlis.
You say Andreas papandreou had balls. He had balls without taking responsibility for what he did. In this way...everyone has balls. Thats the great mistakes many Greeks make. They thinkg Andreas papandreou was good because he was a badass as you say and because he spread money randomly to the people. But in fact he has harmed Greece with such actions more than any other politician. He was the worst thing that could happen to Greece. If you look...since him...Greek economy fellto the basement...surely not by chance.
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 5, 2009 7:54:21 GMT -5
You also dont want to become pm.
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 5, 2009 7:59:13 GMT -5
i was referring Andreas's ability to stick up for Greece's foreign interests. To me that is just as important as the econmomy. The old timer was probably handing out money like candy, but at least it was to almost everyone. I also doubt how much the old man understood about economy...probably not much, but not everyone has its strong points.
ND, is the same except handing money to a few. We all know who these ppl are...
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 5, 2009 8:01:52 GMT -5
all i know is that i expected ND to change a lot of things in Greece. I hated pasok and never was their supporter. These past 6 years are the biggest disappointment i have experienced. ND drove me away as a supporter of theirs. They lost a vote...and I will never vote for them again until I see politicians like the ones in skopia....nobody over 35 yrs old ;D
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 5, 2009 8:10:48 GMT -5
Only to the ones that had the membership book of course.
I still believe tha scandals were not that great in the end as they were portrayed and propagated by the MME and the pasok of course..without wanting to trivialize any of such actions.
But you didnt vote pasok with such an intention, did you?
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 5, 2009 8:16:34 GMT -5
The scandals were pretty serious kastor...and every other day there was some dumbass in ND committing another one. Again, i feel bad for karamanlis....i really like the guy. But as with all leaders do...they have to take responsibilty. He did...he resigned from ND leadership post.
Now ND will have Bakogiannis...for whaterver thats worth.
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 5, 2009 8:19:45 GMT -5
Psifises pasok?
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 5, 2009 8:19:47 GMT -5
Well, i voted pasok only for the reason that I wanted to give Georgakis a shot. He said and promised ( like all politicians do ) that if he has a clear majority...he will change things.
Venizelos cant get in his way and Giorgakis does not have any excuse in not accomplising something he said.
Besides, my alternatives were just as bad. Tsipras, Papriga ( why is their a commie party anyway ?! ), O malakas oikologos ( the one i voted last time and felt like an ass after someone told me about their stance about skopia ), Karatzaferi ( I like him, but he will go nowhere in the international arena )...so on..
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 5, 2009 8:20:49 GMT -5
I hope my vote will not betray me like last time....we will see
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 5, 2009 8:29:03 GMT -5
lol come on chalkedon you are telling me
and the (logical) consequence of this new resolution shall be...to votepasok?! Are you kidding me...where is your reason? To me its clear...you dont know what you want.....in June you voted for the Greens...now for Pasok...tautochrona diloneis megalos patriotis kai zitas eksoteriki politiki i opoioa iperaspizetai ta ethnika simferonta. You are just another victim of this anti-Karamanlis and Giorgos- the- savior-campaign in Greece...unbelieavable. Thats what I mean when I say the average Greek is stupid to me. Dont take it too personal.
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 5, 2009 8:31:49 GMT -5
Im off from here..
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 5, 2009 8:33:28 GMT -5
Kastor,you're a young guy why all the passion in this? Now it's pasok..in 4 years it will be ND... or whatever..to me they are all the same. I was in Greece when the colonels were running in 73... I have seen the mess then.... I am grateful we don't have that anymore...
Is your dad as passionate as you?
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 5, 2009 8:42:33 GMT -5
lol come on chalkedon you are telling me and the (logical) consequence of this new resolution shall be...to votepasok?! Are you kidding me...where is your reason? To me its clear...you dont know what you want.....in June you voted for the Greens...now for Pasok...tautochrona diloneis megalos patriotis kai zitas eksoteriki politiki i opoioa iperaspizetai ta ethnika simferonta. You are just another victim of this anti-Karamanlis and Giorgos- the- savior-campaign in Greece...unbelieavable. Thats what I mean when I say the average Greek is stupid to me. Dont take it too personal. LOL ^ file, i dont take it personal. I wrote a huge post to this, and it got lost when i hit the reply button Anyway, to make it brief.... choices were poor and i wasnt going to vote for ND again. ND said for us to take it up the ass again for another 4 yrs and that they knew what they were doing. Then there is a greek amercian to pick from as an alternative. Well, i trusted a Greek amercian with my vote. Thats who I voted for...not Pasok the party itself.
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Post by chalkedon on Oct 5, 2009 8:44:27 GMT -5
Kastor,you're a young guy why all the passion in this? Now it's pasok..in 4 years it will be ND... or whatever..to me they are all the same. I was in Greece when the colonels were running in 73... I have seen the mess then.... I am grateful we don't have that anymore... Is your dad as passionate as you? Ppl vote according to family or regional votes. I voted for whoever can make my life easier. So far, it failed both times...this is my 3rd try. We will see....
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Oct 5, 2009 9:21:22 GMT -5
Akoma kai top models, Ilikias katw twn 20, kai me spoudes IEK na ebazan na kybernhsoun, den tha eixe kamia diafora, gia ton aploustato logo, oti den kybarname emeis oi Ellhnes alla oi ksenoi.
An kybernousame emeis (oi ellhnes), tote oi ekastote arxhgoi mas, tha mas eixane kopsei ton kolo kai tha mas eixan kanei anthrwpous. Antitheta auto pou symbainei einai, eutheia diakybernhsh ths elladas apo EU/USA kai haidema twn aftiwn tou mesou Ellhna, oti dithen gia ola ftaine oi kakoi politikoi, otan sthn ousia auto pou ftiaei einai H ELEIPSH kratous, to opoio h nea kaksi thelei kai na syriknwsei kai allo!!! Dhladh, mhden astynomia, mhden asfaleia, mhden peitharxeia, ktl...
Oloi pipilame thn karamela peri diafthoras kai kathgoroume tous politikous gia ta amaksia pou exoun sthn vouli, otan se kathe psoro-geitonia exei toulaxiston 2 lexus kai 1 porche.
O politikos, pou tha ferei DIKAIOSYNH, TYFLH, gia olous, kai gia thn parti toy, o politikos pou tha epibalei peitharxeia, alla kai biwsimo sxediasmo, wste na einai EFIKTH h peitharxeia, (kai oxi opws twra, pou to systhma se anagkazei na paranomhseis, blepe parking, gia arxi... mani mani) AUTON oxi mono tha ton pshfisw dagwto, alla tha ton anakyrhkso kai Agio ths Orthodoksias kai tou Byzantiou, kai oti allo thelete...
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Post by L0gjICK on Oct 5, 2009 9:32:54 GMT -5
I'd vote for the one that isn't a Malaka. Oh wait they're all Malakas.
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 5, 2009 12:38:26 GMT -5
Kastor,you're a young guy why all the passion in this? Now it's pasok..in 4 years it will be ND... or whatever..to me they are all the same. I was in Greece when the colonels were running in 73... I have seen the mess then.... I am grateful we don't have that anymore... Is your dad as passionate as you? The reason for the passion is because Im Greek and Im simply interested in politics...especially those of my country. My family is traditionally Nea Dimokratia but neither my parents nor my siblings are as passionate as I am. Personally I must say that I abhor the pasok party because I feel that they have harmed Greece a lot after the junta... and apparently the majority of Greeks does not see that. I get upset because this people to which I belong votes so stupidly...no signs of a proggressive development in the heads of this people. They voted for the supposed easy way (Papandreou) but in the end they will realize it was just another mistake to elect him. Then the Nea Dimokratia will have to adjust the results of their s.hitty policy...at the expense of its popularity. Its always the same cycle...thats how things are working with the parties in Greece...I cant believe that the Greeks gave the pasok party after so much damage they have done to Greece such a great majority of the votes. To me it shows that they havent learned anything from the past... 44% of the votes means nothing else than: "We forgive you all your sins of the past, please come and save (-->fu.ck) us once more". Thats plain retarded way of electing and makes me feel ashamed. Democracy does give so many possiblities to punish the parties in a right way...for instance...vote in a way, where both big parties will be obligated to form a coalition. This would help Greece much more than those reiterative sole party in power- situations. But apparently the Greeks can only make absolute decisions...either black or white...and this is simply wrong. Greek politicians are in need of control. You mustnt give them absolute power. I dont get it why the Greeks are nevertheless doing it...there is only one explanation for me so far: They are plain stupid. They are stupid because they are uncapable of comprehending two, three simple democratic formulas. Let alone the degrading way they deselected Karamanlis...who was a totally clean guy with conscience, responsibility and true love for his country (and thats very rare among greek politicians). Its a shame...
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Post by kartadolofonos on Oct 5, 2009 13:01:47 GMT -5
na doume ti tha kanei to pasok tha kratisi tis proeklogikes iposxeseis tou piso exei oi axlada ti oura 100 meres pasok xoris eksetasis kai politika lathi ton martio tha exoume ekloges gia proedoro tis dimokratias o ellinikos laos kseri na timorizi tous anikanous politikous etsi opos eprakse me ti nea dimokratia tha pari ta idia metra kai gia to pasok min nomizi to pasok oti tha fai me xrisi koutala exei pola provlimata na lysi skopiano ,ellinotourkika kypriako oikonomia asfalistiko,paidia,oi dinastia karamanlides teliose seira tora exoun oi dinasties papandreides kai mitsotakides ;D
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Post by macmako on Oct 6, 2009 8:57:17 GMT -5
Kastorianos, I totally agree with your last post. It seems Greece is stuck on the two names that has run their governments for decades. And I agree about Karamanlis. I believe he was the one that really cared for Greece in a very long time. The problem he had was guilt through association, that is his people being involved in those scandals lately.
I do not really know why he called for the snap elections.
If Dora runs as candidate for Nea Dimokratia next election, would the people put them back into power? I have not read anything negative about her since she was Athens mayor and recently Foreign Minister for Karamanlis.
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