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Post by alb12345 on Jul 7, 2009 16:04:54 GMT -5
I don't know how bad the West is for us. I do know that we owe it a lot. From our independence (no one ever mentions Navarino in 1827, when Western navies helped salvage our battle for independence) to our love of ourselves.
If any Western import has harmed Greece, it's been neither rationalism, nor the political system, nor technology. It's been the idea of the continuity of Hellenic civilization.
Oddly, this idea, which today is waved about like a banner by anti-Westerners, is an entirely Western notion. Foreign "Philhellenes" uncovered our ancient monuments, and it was they who taught us to believe that we were the immediate successors to the ancients, responsible for the continuation of their traditions. The Romioi of the 18th century didn't feel Greek-much less of the ancient variety. They were a Balkan nation, originating from the admixture of many races and cultural traditions, with their own attitudes and ways of thinking. Out of the blue, the Western "Philhellenes" (and their mimics, our own "scholars") stuck a helmet on their head, dubbed them keepers of the ancient flame, and injected them with a passion for purity.
Pure race, ergo, pure language. How this nation has suffered in the name of purity! It was a first in the history of linguistics: the creation of an artificial language, a retro-dialect. All impurities were rooted out, place names were changed, history was distorted-for the sake of proving...what? That Greece was not a Balkan nation like the others, but a racially pure aristocracy, not only of the region but of the whole world. Like certain pseudo-bluebloods who fake their family trees to prove their superiority.
But you don't become worthy on the strength of your lineage, but on the basis of your achievements. The son of a Nobel prizewinner has no birthright to a Nobel prize. The ancient Greeks belong to the whole world, especially to those who study them. An English classicist at Oxford is nearer to the ancients than an ignorant Greek.
Yet even today our intellectuals call the Greeks "the aristocracy of nations." Even today many (most) Greeks believe in their hearts that we are a chosen people. This is why we're always complaining about the way we're treated. Like spoiled children, we demand of everyone their unconditional support-even when we're wrong. And we insist on believing that we're always being cheated, ignoring the fact that we happen to be the only country in the region to have doubled its size in the last 150 years. We've woven endless conspiracy theories so as to absolve ourselves of responsibility, and to cast the blame on others instead. Our belief in our superiority shows up clearly in our racist attitudes. What Greek doesn't consider himself better than the Turk, the Albanian, or the "Gypsy-Skopjan"? Go ask an Greek educated audience about Turkish civilization-they're certain to chuckle.
Well, this Greek, this Greek who asks the world "Do you know who I am?", who shouts at demonstrations, who denies the Other his basic human rights, who has conducted pogroms against his Jewish (in the past) and Muslim (today) compatriots, who ends up shooting (by mistake) the Albanian and the gypsy; this Greek, I don't like. And on this point I remain, incurably, an anti-Hellene.p
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Jul 7, 2009 16:13:14 GMT -5
Waiting for the "Greek Warriors" te descend on this thread and call him a traitor and somehow find a way to blame the whole thing on the Albanians.
Let's see who shows up first Basil, Kane or Kastor?
I say Kanaris.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 7, 2009 16:30:33 GMT -5
Another "which tourkalvanos is more antigreek" contest has just began.... ;D
And btw....yes we're the best...and yes, "turkish civilization" is a joke... ;D
And what about the Ottoman Empire back then in 1827....couldn't they finish up with a handful of Rum gaurs for 6-7 years...and brought araps with Ibrahim...what about the turkarnavud asker that were fiercefull fighters???
And weren't Albanians those who ...gave the Independence to Greece? ;D...Now you claim that the Big Powers did it? ;D
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Jul 7, 2009 16:39:16 GMT -5
Works like a charm.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 7, 2009 16:42:41 GMT -5
Yes because this message confused me....weren't the Albanians who gave us our freedom...? This guy claims that the Big Powers did... ...what to choose ;D What your school books say?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jul 7, 2009 16:43:30 GMT -5
Another " which tourkalvanos is more antigreek" contest has just began.... ;D And btw....yes we're the best...and yes, "turkish civilization" is a joke... ;D And what about the Ottoman Empire back then in 1827....couldn't they finish up with a handful of Rum gaurs for 6-7 years...and brought araps with Ibrahim...what about the turkarnavud asker that were fiercefull fighters??? And weren't Albanians those who ...gave the Independence to Greece? ;D...Now you claim that the Big Powers did it? ;D No Albanian who gives a hand to a Greek can be considered an Albanian. His hand is dirty and he needs to cut it off or be considered a filthy traitor. Albanians should do the opposite.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jul 7, 2009 16:47:31 GMT -5
Another " which tourkalvanos is more antigreek" contest has just began.... ;D And btw....yes we're the best...and yes, "turkish civilization" is a joke... ;D And what about the Ottoman Empire back then in 1827....couldn't they finish up with a handful of Rum gaurs for 6-7 years...and brought araps with Ibrahim...what about the turkarnavud asker that were fiercefull fighters??? And weren't Albanians those who ...gave the Independence to Greece? ;D...Now you claim that the Big Powers did it? ;D No Albanian who gives a hand to a Greek can be considered an Albanian. His hand is dirty and he needs to cut it off or be considered a filthy traitor. Albanians should do the opposite. This guys must be the biggest albanians philhellene...trully. ;D, bravo Melty.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 7, 2009 17:23:09 GMT -5
TLDR.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 7, 2009 17:24:28 GMT -5
The Oracle just confirmed my beliefs.... The Arvanites were Greeks living among the Ali Pashas... Hell yeah!!!! ;D
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Post by leshte on Jul 7, 2009 17:48:51 GMT -5
Ok the herds reaction has been confirmed just as predicted. This guy doesn't think like the herd hence he must not be Greek.
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Lib-Fier
Amicus
Bricklayer 'works for meals'
Posts: 1,092
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jul 7, 2009 17:52:46 GMT -5
arvanites-arbanites-alvanites-albanites...albanian greeks living among ali pasha.
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 7, 2009 18:29:39 GMT -5
I don't know how bad the West is for us. I do know that we owe it a lot. From our independence (no one ever mentions Navarino in 1827, when Western navies helped salvage our battle for independence) to our love of ourselves. If any Western import has harmed Greece, it's been neither rationalism, nor the political system, nor technology. It's been the idea of the continuity of Hellenic civilization. Oddly, this idea, which today is waved about like a banner by anti-Westerners, is an entirely Western notion. Foreign "Philhellenes" uncovered our ancient monuments, and it was they who taught us to believe that we were the immediate successors to the ancients, responsible for the continuation of their traditions. The Romioi of the 18th century didn't feel Greek-much less of the ancient variety. They were a Balkan nation, originating from the admixture of many races and cultural traditions, with their own attitudes and ways of thinking. Out of the blue, the Western "Philhellenes" (and their mimics, our own "scholars") stuck a helmet on their head, dubbed them keepers of the ancient flame, and injected them with a passion for purity. Pure race, ergo, pure language. How this nation has suffered in the name of purity! It was a first in the history of linguistics: the creation of an artificial language, a retro-dialect. All impurities were rooted out, place names were changed, history was distorted-for the sake of proving...what? That Greece was not a Balkan nation like the others, but a racially pure aristocracy, not only of the region but of the whole world. Like certain pseudo-bluebloods who fake their family trees to prove their superiority. But you don't become worthy on the strength of your lineage, but on the basis of your achievements. The son of a Nobel prizewinner has no birthright to a Nobel prize. The ancient Greeks belong to the whole world, especially to those who study them. An English classicist at Oxford is nearer to the ancients than an ignorant Greek. Yet even today our intellectuals call the Greeks "the aristocracy of nations." Even today many (most) Greeks believe in their hearts that we are a chosen people. This is why we're always complaining about the way we're treated. Like spoiled children, we demand of everyone their unconditional support-even when we're wrong. And we insist on believing that we're always being cheated, ignoring the fact that we happen to be the only country in the region to have doubled its size in the last 150 years. We've woven endless conspiracy theories so as to absolve ourselves of responsibility, and to cast the blame on others instead. Our belief in our superiority shows up clearly in our racist attitudes. What Greek doesn't consider himself better than the Turk, the Albanian, or the "Gypsy-Skopjan"? Go ask an Greek educated audience about Turkish civilization-they're certain to chuckle. Well, this Greek, this Greek who asks the world "Do you know who I am?", who shouts at demonstrations, who denies the Other his basic human rights, who has conducted pogroms against his Jewish (in the past) and Muslim (today) compatriots, who ends up shooting (by mistake) the Albanian and the gypsy; this Greek, I don't like. And on this point I remain, incurably, an anti-Hellene.p ok.. lets go for one more time... "I don't know how bad the West is for us. I do know that we owe it a lot. From our independence (no one ever mentions Navarino in 1827, when Western navies helped salvage our battle for independence) to our love of ourselves."We learn about Navarino in the history in school. I learned it.. all of Greek know about Navarino. Failed comment."If any Western import has harmed Greece, it's been neither rationalism, nor the political system, nor technology. It's been the idea of the continuity of Hellenic civilization." ..of course we're all waiting to explain us the great harm we suffer... Oddly, this idea, which today is waved about like a banner by anti-Westerners, is an entirely Western notion. Foreign "Philhellenes" uncovered our ancient monuments, and it was they who taught us to believe that we were the immediate successors to the ancients, responsible for the continuation of their traditions. The Romioi of the 18th century didn't feel Greek-much less of the ancient variety. Yes western philhellenes help in the idea of revival of ancient Greek spirit. So? ..does it means that if someone helps in the idea of revival of native American spirit like Apatsi tribe for example.... Apatsi tribe people do not exist? "The Romioi of the 18th century didn't feel Greek-much less of the ancient variety. They were a Balkan nation, originating from the admixture of many races and cultural traditions, with their own attitudes and ways of thinking."They didnt feel Greek... but they knew they had to make a revolution against Turks, Turkalbanians, Egyptians.... and they knew they are different from Jews, Armenians and all the other subjects of the Ottoman Empire... So.. the felt different... from all the above... but... as author "admits".. they were just "confused" Balkanians.. Quite good revolution for confused Balkanians... ;D ;D "Pure race, ergo, pure language. How this nation has suffered in the name of purity! It was a first in the history of linguistics: the creation of an artificial language, a retro-dialect. All impurities were rooted out, place names were changed, history was distorted-for the sake of proving...what? That Greece was not a Balkan nation like the others, but a racially pure aristocracy, not only of the region but of the whole world. Like certain pseudo-bluebloods who fake their family trees to prove their superiority"Arificial language.. that can be readen from all Greeks in the ancient rocks... after 5000 years. Quite good for an artificial language.. ;D Place names were changed... with the original ones. Macedonian "Thessaloniki"... or Turkish "Selanic" for the capital of Macedonians.. ? Thats the internal question.. Konstantinople since ever... or Istanbul afterwards. It depends what everybody conciders authentic... "Well, this Greek, this Greek who asks the world "Do you know who I am?", who shouts at demonstrations, who denies the Other his basic human rights, who has conducted pogroms against his Jewish (in the past) and Muslim (today) compatriots, who ends up shooting (by mistake) the Albanian and the gypsy; this Greek, I don't like. And on this point I remain, incurably, an anti-Hellene"the question is... is he anti-Jewish for the favor of Palestinians? Is he anti-Muslim for the favor of the victims in WTC? Is he anti-Albanian for the dead Greeks of WW2?.... I'm sure he is not. Thats the problem... One more liberal author that democracy of Greece gives him the right to become popular by choosing a controversial article.. Western Democracies are packed with them..
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 7, 2009 18:47:24 GMT -5
Whats his name?
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Jul 8, 2009 0:37:36 GMT -5
Anyone seen the movie "Groundhog Day"?
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 8, 2009 5:37:27 GMT -5
Yeah I have seen it and it reminds me of the weather up here.... everyday the same chit.
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Post by danceswithpoodles on Jul 8, 2009 9:07:03 GMT -5
It was taken off of one of many fyromak sites promoting this 'article'. I think this is his site: www.ndimou.gr/anti_en.aspHe is into 'philisophy'. He can have his opinion. That's what it is. He is not a histrorian and does not refute 'history'. He just hates Greek nationalism and the general 'Greek' mentality.
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Aris
Amicus
Greek Troll
Posts: 832
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Post by Aris on Jul 8, 2009 9:24:37 GMT -5
The Oracle just confirmed my beliefs.... The Arvanites were Greeks living among the Ali Pashas... Hell yeah!!!! ;D ;D Kana , what did I am ? ;D
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Jul 8, 2009 11:31:54 GMT -5
You're a good guy.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Jul 8, 2009 16:06:52 GMT -5
Yeah I have seen it and it reminds me of the weather up here.... everyday the same chit. I feel like the reporter in the movie who wakes up to find that he is reliving the same day over and over again. Each day in this forum plays out exactly as it did previously, Greek vs. Albanian, and it's becoming increasingly annoying. Can't we just have 1 long hatefest thread instead of having 20 simultaneous ones with the same leitmotif.
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Post by insomniac on Jul 8, 2009 16:27:07 GMT -5
Yeah ppl here do beat the same old stick. It gets annoying.
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