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Post by c0gnate on Feb 23, 2008 21:49:34 GMT -5
Vinjak, that wasn't very nice of you to lock the thread about the origin of Serbs: illyria.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=srbijaserbia&action=display&thread=1203807116I had opened up a scientific question, but you took it as an insult. Are you racist? Do you have something against Vlachs? The ancestors of the Vlachs were the survivors of the destruction of Roman power and society in the Balkans under the onslaught of the Huns and Avars that prepared the way for peaceful migration by the Slavs. They were people from cities like Aemona (Ljubljana), Siscia (Sisak), Sirmium (Sremska Mitrovica), Singidunum (Belgrade), Viminacium (near Pozarevac), Serdica (Sofia), Naissus (Nis), Remesiana (Bela Palanka), Ulpiana (Lipljan in Kosovo), Scupi (Skopje), Adrianopolis (Edirne), etc., as well as the surrounding countryside.
If recent DNA studies[6] [7] are correct, the migrating Slavic speakers were in the minority. The Romanized Balkan population, in other words the Vlachs, were in the majority. How this Slavic minority managed to impose their language (but not their culture, religion or technology) on a Vlach majority remains a mystery. Clearly the process lasted centuries.
The 9th century designation by the Orthodox Patriarch in Constantinople of Slavonic as a language of religious ritual, teaching, and administration doubtless played an enormous role in the later assimilation of the Vlachs. Recall that initially Cyril and Methodius, carrying their Slavonic Bible and alphabet, were sent as missionaries to distant Moravia, not to the Balkans, although there certainly were groups of Slavs present around Thessaloniki and elsewhere in the Balkans.
The acceptance of Slavonic by the Vlachs first happened in the river valleys, the regions with arable land, even in the cities where life and civilization had continued uninterrupted by the Avars.
The last Vlachs to accept a Slavic tongue were those that had lived for centuries in relative isolation at the periphery of medieval society: the shepherds and the cattlemen. That is how the term Vlach, which initially meant ‘speaker of Latin(ate)’, came to mean shepherd / cattleman.
The Balkans of the Middle Ages were sparsely populated. There were vast forests and grasslands that were only nominally under the control of the ruler and the nobility. Vlach pastoralists who practiced transhumance were able to live and move through these vast lands relatively unmolested by central authority. Their obligations to the nobility were much smaller than those of the Slavic speaking agriculturalists, most of whose ancestors, according to DNA studies, also had at one time been Latin speakers, i.e., Vlachs.
Dushan’s prohibition[8] of a land-bound serf (i.e., Serb man) from marrying a Vlach woman testifies to the desire of the agriculturalists to ease their oppression by returning to the relatively freer life led by the Vlachs.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs_of_Serbia
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Post by vinjak on Feb 23, 2008 21:51:26 GMT -5
Awsome footage Keep the home fires burning boys
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Post by vinjak on Feb 23, 2008 21:52:39 GMT -5
Hehehehe so that nik is you why hide yourself LOL embarrassed ?
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Post by c0gnate on Feb 23, 2008 22:20:49 GMT -5
Alle Menschen werden Brüder, Vinjak.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2008 21:36:37 GMT -5
"Kosovo is Serbia", "Ask any historian" read the unlikely placards, waved by angry Serb demonstrators in Brussels on Sunday. This is rather flattering for historians: we don't often get asked to adjudicate. It does not, however, follow that any historian would agree, not least because historians do not use this sort of eternal present tense. History, for the Serbs, started in the early 7th century, when they settled in the Balkans. Their power base was outside Kosovo, which they fully conquered in the early 13th, so the claim that Kosovo was the "cradle" of the Serbs is untrue. What is true is that they ruled Kosovo for about 250 years, until the final Ottoman takeover in the mid-15th century. Churches and monasteries remain from that period, but there is no more continuity between the medieval Serbian state and today's Serbia than there is between the Byzantine Empire and Greece. Kosovo remained Ottoman territory until it was conquered by Serbian forces in 1912. Serbs would say "liberated"; but even their own estimates put the Orthodox Serb population at less than 25%. The majority population was Albanian, and did not welcome Serb rule, so "conquered" seems the right word. But legally, Kosovo was not incorporated into the Serbian kingdom in 1912; it remained occupied territory until some time after 1918. Then, finally, it was incorporated, not into a Serbian state, but into a Yugoslav one. And with one big interruption (the second world war) it remained part of some sort of Yugoslav state until June 2006. Until the destruction of the old federal Yugoslavia by Milosevic, Kosovo had a dual status. It was called a part of Serbia; but it was also called a unit of the federation. In all practical ways, the latter sense prevailed: Kosovo had its own parliament and government, and was directly represented at the federal level, alongside Serbia. It was, in fact, one of the eight units of the federal system. Almost all the other units have now become independent states. Historically, the independence of Kosovo just completes that process. Therefore, Kosovo has become an ex-Yugoslav state, as any historian could tell you. www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/26/kosovo.serbia
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Post by c0gnate on Feb 25, 2008 22:39:44 GMT -5
" Kosovo is Serbia", "Ask any historian" read the unlikely placards, waved by angry Serb demonstrators in Brussels on Sunday. This is rather flattering for historians: we don't often get asked to adjudicate. It does not, however, follow that any historian would agree, not least because historians do not use this sort of eternal present tense. www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/26/kosovo.serbiaYes, but Noel Malcolm hates the Serbs. Ask any Serb.
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Post by prespa1 on Feb 25, 2008 22:56:16 GMT -5
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Post by c0gnate on Feb 26, 2008 12:04:11 GMT -5
Kosovo is at the heart of the Serbian creation myth. But it is a myth, created largely in the 19th century by a handful of Serb intellectuals who were imbued with romantic nationalist ideas.
It would take volumes to explore the mythological role Kosovo plays in the modern Serbian psyche. It includes ideas of past glory, heroic resistance to evil, a pact with God choosing a heavenly empire in exchange for the loss of an earthly one, and so on. The Kosovo myth is also constantly evoked to explain the reasons for the current (20th and 21th century) failures of the Serbian state.
This has only peripheral contact with the real, physical Kosovo, which has had an Albanian majority for centuries. Most Serbs while professing their attachment to Kosovo, recoil at the thought of including the Kosovo Albanians in their (Serbian) state.
Perversely, the recent independence of the real Kosovo, may provide additional fuel to the pyre of Serbian self perception as eternal, holy, heroic victims.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 27, 2008 12:06:44 GMT -5
Under the deal, Serbia joins the South Stream project and allows Gazprom to buy a controlling stake in the Serbian oil monopoly NIS. It is widely seen as a politically-motivated agreement in appreciation of Russia's support for Serbia on the issue of Kosovo.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Feb 27, 2008 13:16:57 GMT -5
Kosovo is at the heart of the Serbian creation myth. But it is a myth, created largely in the 19th century by a handful of Serb intellectuals who were imbued with romantic nationalist ideas. It would take volumes to explore the mythological role Kosovo plays in the modern Serbian psyche. It includes ideas of past glory, heroic resistance to evil, a pact with God choosing a heavenly empire in exchange for the loss of an earthly one, and so on. The Kosovo myth is also constantly evoked to explain the reasons for the current (20th and 21th century) failures of the Serbian state. This has only peripheral contact with the real, physical Kosovo, which has had an Albanian majority for centuries. Most Serbs while professing their attachment to Kosovo, recoil at the thought of including the Kosovo Albanians in their (Serbian) state. Perversely, the recent independence of the real Kosovo, may provide additional fuel to the pyre of Serbian self perception as eternal, holy, heroic victims. Very well put c0gnate. Serbs have ascribed to Kosova a role which it did not posses historically. First and foremost, Kosova as a geographic unit is a matter of controversy. Initially, it was a term applied to the plain in the eastern half of the newborn Republic, in which cities such as Prishtina are situated. The western half was known as Metohija to Serbs and Dukagjin to Albanians. In antiquity, if we are to translate Kosova as Dardania, the region was bigger, encompassing not only modern Kosova, but also parts of what is FYROM and Southern Serbia, including Nis (ancient Naissus, birthplace of Constantine the Great). And so, saying that "Kosova played a decisive role in Serbian history" is to neglect the fact that the term in itself is fluid and has changed from time to time during the corse of history. In Dusan's and Lazar's time, Kosova was not perceived as it is perceived today. And the "centre" of the Serbian "empire" was not restricted to Kosova; Skopje was its capital and Rascia was its real 'cradle'. How we see Kosova today is a more recent perception, not comparable to the medieval and ancient notions of Kosova and Dardania. And its current borders were/are also a political creation, though there is geographical 'sense' to it (being that the plains of Kosova are surrounded almost everywhere by mountains; Sharr mountains in the south, the Accursed Mountains to the west, Kopaonik in the north, Karadak in the east and so forth). 19th century Serbian intellectuals did create the myth of Kosova. This product wouldn't have been so easy to sell had it not been for the legendary battle of 1389. Through this battle, a whole lot of (religious) symbolisms and analogies were made possible and exploited in a most conscious manner. But reality speaks for itself; the only paralell between the Kosova of 1389 and modern Kosova is the name. The myth, despite its flaws, was a success and was used as a pretext to excuse territorial ambitions. As for what will occur in the future; I believe Serbs will either become more radicalized or less so, all depending on what path their politicians choose to pursue. With economic development, the high level of fascist sentiments and the whole infatuation with a nonexisting concept of 'Kosovo' will gradually vanish or be excluded to a minority of racists; working class products. Many Serbs are tired of the non-ending cycle of nationalism which exists at the expense of the economy. Isolation is a high price to pay, and I believe many Serbs are conscious that Russian support and the pledging of an allegiance to Putin might come at high costs, too high. Time will tell if the myth of Kosova, a fabrication of the 19th century, will prevail further and continue to poison the minds of future Serbian generations.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 27, 2008 14:40:43 GMT -5
according to this article ....seems the kosovar serbs dont want jobs ....but imo and safe to assume ... that they might of been threatened by Belgrade & other serbs ...or why else join KPS in the first place
Kosovo Serb Police Leave Ranks In East
27 February 2008 Gnjilane _ Several dozen ethnic Serb police in Kosovo's east apparently agreed to leave the territory's multi-ethnic police force Wednesday.
The officers failed to show for duty at their posts in eastern Kosovo, which is home to several large Serbian enclaves and some 40,000 Serbs.
Earlier they had gathered in the enclave of Ranilug, where they decided to pursue policies “in line with the Belgrade government's Action plan for Kosovo.”
This ‘Action plan’ was agreed by the Serbian government on how to react to Kosovo's declaration of independence and officially remains a state secret.
It is thought the plan seeks to protect Serbia's sovereignty over Kosovo.
Serbia's Infrastructure Minister, Velimir Ilic told Belgrade's B92 Television that the defection of ethnic Serb police officers from Kosovo's multi-ethnic police force is part of this 'Action plan'.
Ismet Hashani, the spokesman for the Kosovo Police Service, KPS in the eastern Gnjilane region confirmed for Balkan Insight that ethnic Serb officers have left the force, but denied this was a cause for concern.
“It is true some Serbs haven't shown up for work in the last few days, some of them are on vacation, some are using their days off, we do not know the exact number,” he claimed.
Hashani added that the KPS has enough forces at the moment to maintain security in the region, but it will assess the issue of resigning Serb officers and decide on a possible reaction.
The KPS established after the United Nations administration took over Kosovo in 1999 and has been seen as a model for peaceful interethnic coexistence and cooperation between Kosovo's ethnic Serb minority and ethnic Albanian majority.
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Post by engers on Feb 28, 2008 3:10:43 GMT -5
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