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Post by bob1389 on Aug 27, 2009 8:40:51 GMT -5
Have been reading it for a while now. big book...
I haven't really looked into this period of Balkan history in such detail before.
That Hadji Mustafa dude around the 1700's was alright, 'mother of the Serbs', lol. Some other interesting stuff aswell
Has anyone else read it? Is it reliable in a factual sense?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 27, 2009 12:04:05 GMT -5
hmmm, its a book by agreek. Is it originally in Greek or in English?
If its in english, then they are big chances that the guy does not know what he is talking about.
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Post by fazlinho on Aug 27, 2009 12:38:09 GMT -5
what is the mother of the Serbs??
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Post by srbobran on Aug 27, 2009 12:59:59 GMT -5
In 1788, Austria was at war with the Ottoman Empire. Koca Andjelkovic and the Serbian Freikorps units under the Austrians crossed into Serbia and seized the Pashaluk of Belgrade and made it a crownland of Austria for three years after the Ottomans won it back in a peace treaty.
Hadji Mustafa was appointed as the new governor of the pashaluk. He was nicknamed "Mother of the Serbs" by the Serbs and Muslims who lived under his reign. He was particularly good towards the Serbian populace and the Serbian knezes were allowed considerable influence under his reign. He (with the approval of the Sultan) gave Serbs limited autonomy and the right to bear arms. In 1792, under the leadership of Stanko Harambasic, a Serbian army (that fought for the Ottomans) was even created that by 1798 had 16,000 Serbs fighting for it. They generally fought the rebellious Jannisaries alongside regular Ottoman troops. Unfortunately, Hadji Mustafa was murdered (I'm not entirely sure about this) and the new guys in charge were essentially the Jannisaries who the Serbs had been fighting. Needless to say, they were oppressive and as a result, the Serbian revolution followed suite.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 27, 2009 14:32:22 GMT -5
Srbobran, very interesting. Also that might explain the relatively big percentage of german technology of the time, in Serbia, and also to some extent the astonishing expertise of the Serbs in technical matters and technical culture/formal procedures/organization, compared to the rest of us.
I think german's were serb-friendly till about 1870.
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Post by srbobran on Aug 27, 2009 14:42:45 GMT -5
Till 1870? No way. The Austrians were friendly towards Serbs when we guarded their borders, served their interests, and faught in there wars (not just against the Ottomans I might add, a few thousand Serbian Freikorps served in Italy as well, not to mention our loyality in 1711 and 1848) . However, as soon as Serbs started having aspirations for a state (and when those aspirations were recognized in 1817), the Austrians became increasingly hostile and cautious toward us (they viewed Serbia as a potential Piedmont for the South Slavs).
We used German technology because Germany technology was (and in many ways is, and I believe always will be) of excellent quality.
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gavrilo
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Post by gavrilo on Aug 27, 2009 22:15:57 GMT -5
how is the book overall? it seems long, 2000 pages?
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Post by srbobran on Aug 28, 2009 12:56:03 GMT -5
It looks interesting. Is there an online version of it I can read?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 28, 2009 14:28:46 GMT -5
Stavrianos was co-author of the book alongside Macedonian-American Traian Stoianovich. Traian died a few years ago and also worked alongside the Albanian historian Stavro Skendi, who my great-grandfather knew when they were in the Balli Kombetar during WWII.
The six degrees. ;D
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gavrilo
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Post by gavrilo on Aug 31, 2009 0:23:53 GMT -5
got the book today, gonna start reading it soon.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 31, 2009 3:49:52 GMT -5
sorry dudes, but only the title of the book reveals its GREKO-centricity. 1453, is an unknown date to all balkanians but Greeks. Unfortunately, 1453, is a means by western propaganda to attribute all wrongs of the medieval-modern Greece to the turks, while in fact THE CRUSADERS and VENICE were the main responsible for the end of the eastern empire. After 1204, Byzantium was a complete joke, so i dont get how the date 1453 is so important to be included in the title. Classic western greek dogma that we learned in schools. Good good good good Byzantium up to 1453. Bad bad bad bad bad bad turks (and also bad slavs) after 1453.
However All that useful info could not help my small brain when driving in my homeland - Epiros and seeing toponyms like: -> Granitsa 2 km, Doliana 5 km, Bizani 3 km, Tsepelovo 30 km, etc..... Thats not the kind of history that helps you explain modern reality.
anyway i will have to read it.
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Post by bob1389 on Aug 31, 2009 7:56:32 GMT -5
I enjoyed it as it wasn't directly aimed at Serbs - which would not make it biased one way or the other. (a bulk of it still does reffer to Serbia and Serbs)
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