ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on May 1, 2009 2:26:18 GMT -5
Muslims and Macedonians got their own countries (while being assimilated in Bulgaria and Greece). "Macedonians" were NOT assimilated in Bulgaria, because they were Bulgarians and there was nothing to assimilate. They identified as bg, all sources point to that. Serbia couldnt assimilate them because they were not Serbs. But Serbia and Yugoslavia sucseeded in making those Bulgarians "separate nation". That was achieved by making them believe Bulgarians were tatars, asiatics, that enslaved the slavs on the Bolkans. The Bulgarian language was serbanized as much as possible but it ia still a Bulgatian dialect, according to every sane and unbiased linguist. In Greek Macedonia, most Bulgarians moved to Bulgaria in the 40ties, some remained and were hellenized, because as a whole the Greek idea was always very strong in the southern geographic region of Macedonia.
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Post by ErmirI on May 1, 2009 3:10:25 GMT -5
^^^How do you explain that in Albania too, there exist Bulgarian and Macedonian minorities? For example ex twice prime minister Pandeli Majko is known to be from the Macedonian one.
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Post by Novus Dis on May 1, 2009 3:26:21 GMT -5
"Macedonians" were NOT assimilated in Bulgaria, because they were Bulgarians and there was nothing to assimilate. They identified as bg, all sources point to that. Serbia couldnt assimilate them because they were not Serbs. But Serbia and Yugoslavia sucseeded in making those Bulgarians "separate nation". That was achieved by making them believe Bulgarians were tatars, asiatics, that enslaved the slavs on the Bolkans. The Bulgarian language was serbanized as much as possible but it ia still a Bulgatian dialect, according to every sane and unbiased linguist. In Greek Macedonia, most Bulgarians moved to Bulgaria in the 40ties, some remained and were hellenized, because as a whole the Greek idea was always very strong in the southern geographic region of Macedonia. O RLY?
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Post by SKORIC on May 1, 2009 6:53:51 GMT -5
^^^How do you explain that in Albania too, there exist Bulgarian and Macedonian minorities? For example ex twice prime minister Pandeli Majko is known to be from the Macedonian one. Thats a pretty good questions actually lol
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on May 1, 2009 13:08:50 GMT -5
The brainwashing was not only in fyrom. The fyrom spends alot of money making those people "Macedonian". Actually the fact that even there remained Bulgarians, so far from Bulgaria and survived the "Macedonian" policy is a proove they were indeed Bulgarians.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 1, 2009 14:10:01 GMT -5
Ioan, do you forget Vardarska Divizija, in 1915-1918, in other words 1/6 of the Serbian army fighting against the bulgarians to save their lands?
Who made them hate bulgarians, considering before the balkan wars there were under turkish rule?
So we have a conspiracy to make those ppl NON-bulgarians by a) serbs? b) fyrom (as you say : read themselves)?
Ioan, today in Turkey there are true Cretan speakers, true Cretans by blood, who in addition declare themselves as such. Nobody cares, let them be there, we dont claim anything.
Ioan, it is the amount of cultural and/or scientific development or just plain money that makes a certain country more or less attractive than another country.
See? USA today want this nation to be "macedons", and they apparently like being on USA's side. Serbia lost them (for the moment). However that does not mean that Bulgaria will gain them, by showing them maps or talking to their language. You gotta find other ways if you want them so much.
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rex362
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Pellazg
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Post by rex362 on May 1, 2009 14:20:51 GMT -5
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Post by SKORIC on May 1, 2009 19:55:38 GMT -5
The brainwashing was not only in fyrom. The fyrom spends alot of money making those people "Macedonian". Actually the fact that even there remained Bulgarians, so far from Bulgaria and survived the "Macedonian" policy is a proove they were indeed Bulgarians. How did the evil Serbs get to them in Albania?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 1, 2009 23:35:06 GMT -5
The brainwashing was not only in fyrom. The fyrom spends alot of money making those people "Macedonian". Actually the fact that even there remained Bulgarians, so far from Bulgaria and survived the "Macedonian" policy is a proove they were indeed Bulgarians. How did the evil Serbs get to them in Albania? in that case we should update the list of nations conspired against bulgarians on this matter: a) serbs b) themselves c) albanians the list is getting longer lol!
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on May 2, 2009 0:45:21 GMT -5
no not albanians. enough in this case are the serbs and from there the southwest bulgarians. as far as i know, the albanians had little to do with this. of course after years, the bulgarians in albania felt under the cultural influence of the new nation. and after bulgaria did not have any activity and is much more far away, now the bulgarians in albania are devided into "macedonians" and bulgarians.
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 2, 2009 2:38:19 GMT -5
"Thats a pretty good questions actually lol"
Read about the Bulgarian Exarchate!.
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Post by ErmirI on May 2, 2009 2:56:31 GMT -5
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 2, 2009 3:35:31 GMT -5
"Also some Gorani near the border with Kosovo and Macedonia and in Kosovo proper. They came there from Sofia mostly some 70-80 years ago. I can't find the exact article right now, but thse should give an insight." The Goranci speak an old serbian dialect, these Bosniaks were formally serbs who converted to the islamic religion very late, 18/19th century. "Goranis in Kosovo (Bulgarian language)" Their language is part of the serbo-croat branch. "Some Bulgarian organizations have been helping their kin in Albania move to BG." Thanks to the Bulgarian exarchos for this
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on May 2, 2009 3:42:26 GMT -5
Old Serbian you are talking about Novi is Bulgarian. And yes, it includes Torlakian, my blood relative
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Post by ErmirI on May 2, 2009 4:42:38 GMT -5
For ignorant trolls I merely quoted the articles, which in turn speak for the Goranis themselves. They say Goranis are linked to Bulgarians, NOT Serbs. Ioan what about Torbesh? We have some in Albania too (very few), Namik Dokle is the highest ranking politician from them. sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namik_Dokle this is only in Albanian, but he has been deputy PM and Head of the parliament, Socialist Party etc. I ask because some say they are related to Bulgarians, and there are Goranis with second name Dokle.
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Post by srbobran on May 2, 2009 10:22:10 GMT -5
No, the Gorani mostly self-identify themselves as Serbs. For God's sake they celebrate Slavas and they venerate Sv. Sava (a saint that only SERBS venerate) every year. Not to mention they dance the kolo and share numerous cultural similarities with Serbs (the biggest of which is the fact that they have KEPT the Slava from before they converted meaning they were originally Orthodox Serbs). And yes, the Gorani language is considered a branch of the Serbo-Croat language. I have been to areas where Torlakian is spoken and trust me, its VERY compatible with standard Serbian (I could understand 99% of it without any problems whatsoever), most of its a matter of a different accent and some different (but structurally similar) words. The whole crazed Bulgarian claim on the Gorani began in 2002. Anyways, Ioan, speaking of blood relatives, look at this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_by_ethnic_groupsSerbs and FYR Macedonians have the exact same genetic composition (ie. the blood you speak of). By the way, every single value on that table has a reputable Western source.
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Post by radovic on May 2, 2009 11:21:11 GMT -5
Yes Ioan, Gorani are so Bulgarian that they vote for the Radical PArty of Serbia in the 2008 elections.
^ The worst party any minority in Serbia to vote for in elections.
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Post by soko on May 2, 2009 13:21:41 GMT -5
meni gorani kada pricaju na svom tom jeziku, najvise mi lice na makedonce, samo sto su donekle muslimani.... ali boli me kurac.. mozda imaju jaku dobre zenske ako svako hoce da ih smatra svojima od vas ovdje... =D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on May 2, 2009 13:37:10 GMT -5
Srbobran, according to your knowledge, has there ever been an effort of define, measure the notion of "distance" between ethnic groups? And i am talking about blood distance. we know that the distance in 2-D space between two points p1(x1,y1) and p2(x2,y2) is could we "draw" genetic footprints of nations on same space and calculate their distance among each other? That would be ultra cool.
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Post by Novi Pazar on May 2, 2009 20:19:39 GMT -5
"Old Serbian you are talking about Novi is Bulgarian. And yes, it includes Torlakian, my blood relative"
So people like me, vinny, highduke and bp are bulgarians?
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