ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Nov 10, 2009 12:47:28 GMT -5
Notice that the Serbian initiatives in Macedonia are noted as ‘artificial’, meaning that this was just a political agenda and there were actually no ethnic, cultural, historic, or any other ties that the Serbs could claim on Macedonia.
So, once again, the incentive was artificial and Serbia just wanted to expand its territory. It’s understandable that they go for Macedonia as Bulgaria was occupied with pushing the Turks out of Europe. Macedonia was a much easier target than Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Heh, this is rather entertaining. I especially love that part where it says that the Serbs were “weren’t in the habit of mental application”. I think Novi is a perfect example of that.
So the Serbs were officially Turcophils, no surprise there.. they did leave the Bulgarians to fight off the Turks alone in the First Balkan War.
So again, Serbia’s incentives in Macedonia were merely political and territorial expansion. On the, the Bulgarian incentive was to free the Macedonians, it’s own people, from the Ottomans.
MACEDONIA: ITS RACES AND THEIR FUTURE by H. N. Brailsford (Methuen & Co., London, 1906)
Quotes from a source which was indirectly quoted and referenced by Novi.
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on Nov 10, 2009 13:38:12 GMT -5
That's because he only does copy-paste from a kajillion Serb sites on "Serbdom". If he had the time to read and properly examine these sources he would also have had time to learn Serbian...but you know more Serbian than him lol
We Albs have wasted plenty of precious time with these trolls, don't waste yours...
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Post by macmako on Nov 10, 2009 17:16:49 GMT -5
I agree, Ermir.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 10, 2009 19:52:03 GMT -5
"Servia did not exercise an influence so compelling, and the Servian cause in Macedonia proper is in consequence a negligible and artificial movement. It exists only in so far as it pays its way, and in so far as the Turks encourage it as a counterpoise to the menacing Bulgarian agitation. The very fact that the Turks smile upon it is a proof that it is innocuous and doomed to futility. As things are to-day the Servian consuls are about as likely to win the Macedonians for Servia as the American missionaries are to convert them to Protestantism." Lets see what l've read of Brailsford: "The fear in Macedonia is more than an emotion. It is a physical disease, the malady of the country, the ailment that comes of tyranny." The negligible movement was due to the Turks hatred of the Serbs which had been exacerbated by the Serbo-Turkish wars. Since vardar and bulgaria were in the hands of the Turks, the turks PREFERRED the patient and submissive Bulgar than of the rebellious Serb or Greek, especially since a part of serbia had gained its freedom, therefore the Turks regarded every Serb outside of the newly formed serbian principality and who declared himself to be such as a rebellious conspirator against the Turkish regime. Now, l was going to say in the Bylgarska Ezharkhia thread, why was the Exarchate created? because the Bulgars felt that the Greek schools in Bulgaria were a greater threat than the regime of the Turks , they believed they were going to be denationalized because of them. .......so they believed (the bulgars) that in order to prevent becoming denationalised they threw themselves into the arms of the Turks. The Bulgars asked the Porte to set up a special body for public instruction, plus, there was a memorandum which the Bulgars handed to the Sultan stating that they were preparred to remain under the Sultans authority and to help strengthen the Ottoman monarchy, as the Magyars did to Austria and the Algerians to France. Do you want me to continue, Asen?
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 11, 2009 5:00:29 GMT -5
Bulgarians never choosed Turks over the Greeks. We were living in the Ottoman empire, ruled by the Turks, thus it was only natural that the Turkish sultan Abdülaziz granted the right to establish an autonomous Bulgarian Exarchate by issuing the Sultan's firman promulgated on February 28 (the Julian calendar), 1870. I can not accept this as a "trowing in the hands of the Turks". If you could actually think (but you dont obvious from your post) you ll get that the only legal way to get an independant church was through the sultan firman.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 11, 2009 6:40:40 GMT -5
Ivan Minchev said the following: "The Greek schools in Bulgaria, were a greater danger than the tyrannical regime of the Turks, for they were on the way to denationalizing the Bulgars."
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 11, 2009 9:45:19 GMT -5
Yes, because the Turks didnt try to debulgarize the Bulgarians, on the other hand the Greeks (that had the same religion as us) builded schools and teached the Bulgarians in Greek language. There were lots of Bulgarians that got hellenized at the period thats why Ivan have written this. Novi, I know you are incapable of thinking, but try to read what you post, before you post it.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Nov 11, 2009 10:43:47 GMT -5
Another pathetic one liner. Please oh please oh please. Just try & think for your self. I know you haven't been successful when you've tried in the past but just give it a go. Never know, you might get better.
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Post by rusebg on Nov 11, 2009 12:53:45 GMT -5
Ioan mate, hats off at your patience. You always try to explain something obvious to the most stupid person here - Novipazarbegovich. I don't know how you do it.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 11, 2009 13:51:24 GMT -5
Ruse, do not think it is easy. It costs me alot of nerves. And I am not joking.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 11, 2009 19:24:52 GMT -5
^ Ioan mate, relax, its only a forum so we can debate. Whats the purpose of having a forum if l always have to agree with you, it would be boring, right. I enjoy debating with you guys, l basically need you guys, so keep up the great job your an important member here Next post its back to business ;D
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 11, 2009 19:56:04 GMT -5
First you write this:
"Bulgarians never choosed Turks over the Greeks."
then you write the following:
"Yes, because the Turks didnt try to debulgarize the Bulgarians, on the other hand the Greeks (that had the same religion as us) builded schools and teached the Bulgarians in Greek language. There were lots of Bulgarians that got hellenized at the period thats why Ivan have written this."
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 11, 2009 20:11:10 GMT -5
James barker, Turkey, New York, 1877, pg 44 writes:
"In the light of all these circumstances, it is not surprising that the first five Bulgarian bishops, in a latter to the Bulgarian nation, urged the people, not only to remain loyal to the Sultan, but to redouble their loyalty and submission."
Now, the edict establishing the Exarchate opened up considerable opportunities for spreading Bulgarian influence in all the serbian lands under Turkish rule.
Ioan, do you know about the Ruthenian, Gjorgje Venelin?
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Nov 11, 2009 20:47:15 GMT -5
The Serbian lands are North West of Belgrade. South East of Belgrade is all Bulgarian.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 11, 2009 20:57:56 GMT -5
^ Bulgarian land is only Pliska ;D
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