ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 11, 2010 9:06:45 GMT -5
Rhezus, our present name is the right one - it is and it should stay Bulgaria. Why? Because we and our ansestors have been called Bulgarians by outsiders and we and our kings have all called themselves Bulgarians... and that is since 1400 years. I am from those Bulgarians that are proud of the Thracians... I deffinately think they are among the ansestors of the Bulgarians, but there are also Slavs and Bulgars that have contributed to our nation... Those tree elements mixed to form the present day Bulgarian nation... We of course have the right to be proud on the Thracian nation, history and culture, but so do the northeastern Greeks and northwestern Turks who must have also a good amount of Thracian blood.
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Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Rhezus on Jun 11, 2010 11:31:41 GMT -5
Seems you mix two different periods.. Look, before there was any Bulgaria, there was Thrace - Thracian lands all over. When Bulgars came, they of course were not close friends to the Romans - they made a separate state out of the Roman Empire. That's why today we are called all Bulgarians.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 11, 2010 12:20:29 GMT -5
Ok, Patrinos.. because in contrast to you we got/accepted additional groups (slavics, gothic, bulgars etc.) and because of that, there was a periods of ethnical regrouping - we all accepted that and adapted to the upcoming new reallity. It means our ppl we not narrow minded. Can you understand that better now? We accepted foreign groups too, like Slavs and Albanians, and Vlachs...and Pelasgians... and Leleges... ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) .. that doesn't mean that I would feel Pelasgian or Lelex... ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ... My ethnos is Greek, despite its influences, as my language is... just because Greeks were the majority in the places where the majority of the today Greeks come from. And the indigenous population in today Bulgaria, local Thracian(romanized or hellenized) or Greek or Goths or Gaul colonizers wouldn't have felt much sympathy towards the Bulgar and Slav invadors that devastated their lands and emptied cities, towns and villages...
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Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Rhezus on Jun 11, 2010 18:29:02 GMT -5
It doesn't mean that the outcome for our country should be exactly as it was for your country. That is supposed to mean that circumstances can be different - we are not you, our situation was not your situation, etc.
As said, again such were the circumstances at the specific period of time. Certain things happened and now it is how you see it. Imagine for a moment for instance: if Ottomans were not present for 5 centuries on the Balkans, or if Romans were not present in the areas, or if Thracia was strongly united with Dacia. How different things could have been, don't you think?
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 12, 2010 3:27:11 GMT -5
As said, again such were the circumstances at the specific period of time. Certain things happened and now it is how you see it. Imagine for a moment for instance: if Ottomans were not present for 5 centuries on the Balkans, or if Romans were not present in the areas, or if Thracia was strongly united with Dacia. How different things could have been, don't you think? we have a saying in Greece.... "if my aunt had balls she would have been my uncle..." ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) ... if and if ... history is not if... and history said that Slavs and Bulgars devastated the old Thrace and its population, killed them, sold them in slavery, made them to migrate etc etc... Its like Turks claiming to be or feeling proud of Ionians just because they have Smyrni and Phocaia...
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jun 12, 2010 6:18:52 GMT -5
Patrinos, though you are right that there are alot of sources that claim that Byzantine territory was devastated by the Bulgars and Slavs, it has to be accepted that this was the byzantine view point. I do not think that technically it is possible to totally depopulate Thrace... Not to mention that contradicts archeological findings... I think its very probable that certain people in Thrace prefered to live in Bulgaria even for the much lower taxes and were slowly slavicized... Actually if we do not accept slavization, its very interesting how the Romanians survived till this day being on the very crossroad of all invaders... they should ve been depopulazed first, but they arent. The thing with Bulgarians: Boris I chose slavic language for official, in Bulgaria there was created a unique slavic culture-thats why the Bulgars and the Thracians were gradually slavizised.
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Post by rusebg on Jun 12, 2010 6:36:00 GMT -5
To a country established and ruled by Bulgars. The rest is theory and wishful thinkling, who, when, how, how many, etc. If there were no Bulgars, there would be no Bulgaria. The only people capable of uniting the ethnicities living here in one state. End of story.
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