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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 11, 2010 13:47:29 GMT -5
In terms of historical remains wealth, Turkey has more to show. Albeit most old churches are mosques today but they are still maintained well enough to get a picture of it, inwhich case one church/mosque in Stambul trumps 90% of Byzantine churches in Attica or the Peloponnese. Meanwhile western Anatolian city remains look massive in comparison to the small remains here and there you find in Greece or the Balkans in general. Modern Greece is the peripheral and impoverished zone of the Anatolian centered Byzantine Empire (which, ironically, you guys say you find more connection to than ancient Greece...) and its only real value is in its archaic Greek period down to the Peloponnesian war... and much of the remains is cultural/literary rather than in terms of remains. Meaning empty headed tourists would say "wow, this is pretty empty here".
Wasnt Athens a provincial town when Gavur Izmir had a population nearly in the millions?
Only thing is that Turkey has not had a tourist industry quite as strong as Greece's and development in Turkey has been disorganized in comparison. Had the development pattern been equal, there would be no comparison.
Also, its too simple to dismiss cities. When I go to a country, the first thing I look for is the beauty of the city. When I was in Austria I was amazed at the beauty the cities and organized towns created in relation to the countryside. Meanwhile looking at the unorganized development in Greece (small building next to one 5 times bigger next to one small shop) is quite the turn off.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 11, 2010 14:50:42 GMT -5
Byzantine legacy of Minor Asia is as much Greek as Mystras in Moreas... That we lost in '22 and we lost the land and the Greeks inhabiting there doesn't mean anything... Smyrni is not less Greek historicaly than Patras and Athens. You can say Smyrni was more unlucky because she always had the barbarians closer to her... Its true that Byzantion without Mikrasiatic Hellenism of Smyrni, Trapezounta, Nikaia, Kaisaria is half... but btw the greatest monuments of Byzantion(out of Polis) is in the Helladic area, like Agion Oros, Meteora, Thessaloniki, Kastoria, whole of Attica like Daphni monastery, Osios Loukas in Boiotia, Nea Moni Chiou, Mystras, Acrocorinth, Cyclades, Meteora, Agion Oros etc etc ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/4422937538_ef060d543a_o.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/4131785406_c134da8d68_b.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3654/3669353084_8ee9503ced_b.jpg) Angelokastro, Corfu ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3233/2922103856_64c81e5de0_o.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3047/2922103428_c7891f6c0f_o.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2041/2922103148_956507acdd_o.jpg) Agios Dimitrios, Thessaloniki, 7th century... ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3284/3024864330_187c2c947a_b.jpg) Panagia Chalkeon, 11th century ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3131/2618506302_3061cdb571_o.jpg) ![](http://tars.rollins.edu/Foreign_Lang/Greek/daph3.jpg) Daphni monastery ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3279/2296137700_e6e74aa405_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2555/3989979390_0956471239_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2147/3528919437_5dfe669e7f_o.jpg) Hosios Loukas monastery ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3371192386_8c44211882_o.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3485/3727261309_9c0f4f0c7f.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/2546975640_662bfc890b_o.jpg) Nea Moni Chios ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4582930991_1c88d937a8_b.jpg) ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4592254552_afc4e4e664_b.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3053/2775729258_77d7f6f1c3_b.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3658/3500834097_56925a5c41_b.jpg) (reconstructed palace) All the kastropoliteia of Mystras or Meteora and Agion Oros : illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=hellasgreece&thread=29481&page=1And just because you talked about Athens... : www.eie.gr/byzantineattica/view.asp?lg=en
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 11, 2010 15:00:09 GMT -5
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 11, 2010 15:06:42 GMT -5
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 11, 2010 15:28:06 GMT -5
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 11, 2010 16:03:25 GMT -5
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 11, 2010 16:39:22 GMT -5
Trying to save grace? ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) The legacy today belongs to the Turkish Ministry of Tourism. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 11, 2010 17:15:52 GMT -5
![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) The legacy today belongs to the Turkish Ministry of Tourism. ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) turks can go to hell, i don't care. but the land they have the luck to live must be well preserved, and if touristic development would give those mongols a motive to preserve our ancient and medieval monuments, shall be it...
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Post by Kastorianos on Jun 12, 2010 2:28:01 GMT -5
Dont take notice of this envier Patrine. He is desperate because his wretched Albania has nothing to offer except for drugs and hoes.... We dont have the Hagia Sofia but I wouldnt say that Smyrnis Byzantine legacy was greater than this of Thessaloniki or Mystras. In no case...Thessaloniki was the second capital of the Empire. The only real irreplaceable loss is Constantinople but we have discussed that already. The architecture in Asia Minor was nothing special in comparison to that of European Greece. Only Constantinople was sth special because of the Empires centralism. But Greece has with Agion Oros, Thessaloniki and Mystras a lot to offer in terms of Byzantinism. Also...what the Turks can not offer...we are the descendants of the Byzantines: Live Byzantine culture in every corner of Greece... Also Kastoria is a little Byzantine world btw...72 little Byzantine churches alone in the city... ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 12, 2010 3:17:24 GMT -5
What a joke, envier this, envier that. If you want to have me admit it Ill say it quite openly and without much problem: Greece is much much prettier than my country. Not because of Orthodox churches, I care about them about as much as I care about any religious remain. My town where I come from has Byzantine churches too, I think that they should be turned into public latrines... at least it offers something nice to look at and images tend to relax the colon.
I dont find any special pride in having a beautiful country, as much as the town I come from has a beautiful beach as well... it does nothing for me personally, I get no advantage in life from it, no greater sense of achievement, no honorary pass... and it doesnt make it any easier to plan a vacation.
Eitherway, I have said it: Turkey and Croatia both offer greater, IMHO, substitutes to the country and simply responded to the claim "most beautiful".
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 12, 2010 3:32:15 GMT -5
Eitherway, I have said it: Turkey and Croatia both offer greater, IMHO, substitutes to the country and simply responded to the claim "most beautiful". "substitutes"... exactly,you used the correct word...wanna be Greeces. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 12, 2010 3:36:19 GMT -5
Dont play semantics, you know what i meant. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 12, 2010 3:43:01 GMT -5
Dont play semantics, you know what i meant. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png) "glossa lanthanousa alitheian legei"
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Post by Kastorianos on Jun 12, 2010 3:44:47 GMT -5
Freudian slip as we say today. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 12, 2010 3:51:34 GMT -5
Its a lame thing to place truth in quotes.. and Freud is a thing of the past.
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Post by Kastorianos on Jun 12, 2010 3:53:31 GMT -5
Which truth....your pretended opinion? Good joke.. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 12, 2010 4:01:55 GMT -5
Would my opinion be okay if it praised Greece? Does my overt distaste for your people, nation, ethnicity, genus, etc. etc. mean that I am not allowed to form legitimate opinions? ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 22, 2010 9:08:12 GMT -5
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Aug 4, 2010 8:29:13 GMT -5
![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3393/3600470367_de65de7227_b.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3243/4561597992_394c1ed996_b.jpg) ![](http://farm1.static.flickr.com/221/496951933_f085270681_o.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3172/3085884415_e1a97ebb89_o.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3464/3958931420_d2d330973f_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2614/3942050425_1334c891c2_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2543/4027006772_63bbacb7dd_b.jpg) ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4093/4753782511_5ca5ffe48e_b.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3292/4087380734_5f8aa7563a_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/3958415998_3b7c65f61c_o.jpg) ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4031/4494607020_b9dcd053cf_b.jpg) ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4137/4750164026_ae5e487bd8_b.jpg) ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4659112156_9e29cebdcc_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2659/4179481996_84185f0ca3_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2670/4165102205_89130f47da_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2772/4163837064_da0193debb_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2560/4163695014_5446db1b40_b.jpg) Vikos gorge is the deepest gorge on earth! ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2638/4162924551_75272c58da_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/4014055907_6141580cd8_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2659/3965411078_ceac073704_b.jpg) Messini ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2775/4187417552_d37b9a533f_b.jpg) Dodoni ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4137/4780155994_44b18ed4ea_b.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3376/4622358178_47cba5424c_b.jpg) ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4136/4807895963_68bbbc2cbf_b.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3438/3360322165_981d65fecf_o.jpg) Platamonas ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4134/4759984656_23a4c5f816_b.jpg) ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4759295965_7895aa4f5c_b.jpg) ![](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1282/4669216309_076a67037b_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2706/4523015918_a4d7f59d1f_b.jpg) Santorini ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4430292890_58e1d4035c_b.jpg) Monemvasia ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3500/3826605449_6eda6d96ab_o.jpg) Stymphalia lake ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4074/4849604084_a4ded1b707_b.jpg) Chania, Crete ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4150/4846432099_bac7eaef16_b.jpg) Old town, Rhodos ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3318/3333224610_8dac8d9922_o.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2390/1893579109_3afb0f7bb0_b.jpg) Loutro, Crete ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3075/2680599774_81d0d88dc9_o.jpg) Kefalonia ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4185078667_8435ed2477_b.jpg) Gytheio ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4699847429_59f5e83c3a_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2589/3723319074_b238efd929_o.jpg) ![](http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/57792/capital.jpg) Mytilini ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4367919340_dea6acf283_b.jpg) ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4332443789_b02a936ba9_b.jpg) Agia Sophia, Thessaloniki, 7th century ![](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1345/1138568669_fb991b2518_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2566/3832425272_f250b91dc0_b.jpg) Panaghia Parigoritissa, from the Byzantine capital of the Despotate of Epiros, Arta, 13th century ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2651/3839210510_d0aba67bd6_b.jpg) The Hot Spring that gave the name to Thermopyles ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2456/3796085187_d4228c10a7_b.jpg) Delphi ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2544/3796080809_7ea783a3cf_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2608/3790358396_8322589ff1_b.jpg) 10th century monastery, Osios Loukas, Boiotia ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2610/3786448139_f53a78131d_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2462/4000598209_7711bb1f3c_o.jpg) Thessaloniki concert hall ![](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1430/532122547_dd248bbee9_o.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2291/2516048614_156b6ff281_o.jpg) Amorgos, Panagia i Chozoviotissa ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3232/2757664119_5f315b010b_b.jpg) ![](http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1439/1037116911_73c73c9a19_o.jpg) Panagia Katefiani, Santorini ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2196/1743351908_64c78a80fa_o.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3355/3633629757_bdd2928e5e_o.jpg) Mani ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2354/1751516434_83d46c9338_o.jpg) Kyllini, Peloponnese ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3515/3801086295_5f75ec066f_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2705/4203368854_a638587ea6_b.jpg) ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2786/4537855100_1f8a9b22e9_b.jpg) Ouranoupolis, Chalkidiki ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4738609651_a17dfe955d_b.jpg) Porto Katsiki, Leukada ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3469/4560410976_07d7e6026f_b.jpg) ![](http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4293628549_7fcb691de8_b.jpg) Parga ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3124/2726423682_a0acf05b9d_b.jpg) ![](http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3269/2731240370_9e2e750244.jpg) Syrako village, Epiros ![](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2777/4534235405_d8eb2ca47b_b.jpg)
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Post by hellboy87 on Aug 4, 2010 17:39:47 GMT -5
I love it
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