rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 15, 2010 17:22:09 GMT -5
most : are simply Grekofils for whatever reasons ...posers that are not respected
The rest : dont tell me you never heard of the vast amounts of communist greeks that fled to Albania who were greeted with open arms ...but these are usually the silent ones that are respected
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Post by emily33 on Aug 15, 2010 17:41:06 GMT -5
Rex, there have been several attempts to 'rationalize' their 'Greekness'. Some of them were:
-They're being paid by the Greek Government. My answer: These 'payments' did not exist in the 1600's, 1700's, 1800's and so on -A lot of them don't look 'Greek' but rather 'albanian' Newsflash! Many Albanians don't look 'albanian' and many Greeks do not look like the stereotype you have in your head. -They learned to be Greek and the Greek language from being near the coast Centuries of history of these villages prove otherwise -They are Greek communists that left Greece after the war Surprisingly, most of them came back to Greece right after the war and AGAIN centuries of history prove otherwise - Yanulatos is a Greek spy and the Greek Church is responsible for this Again, centuries of history prove otherwise....
WTF? Doesn't anyone have the right to determine who they are? Even Pilkati admits he's 1/4 Greek but I would never claim him as Greek.
As far as those 'clan' names go...there is a colombian security checker at the airport in Rhode Ilsand with the name Bollanos. Yes, he has absolutely no Greek or Albanian in him. FYI I have met albs with Greek surnames and ethnic Greeks from Albania w/ alb surnames...both groups adament about who they are and where they come from which is fine with me.
You guys totally flip out about this stuff.
Yes, no turks in Albania...they left you all alone. Most of the Greeks are delusional albanians. Half the population of Greece is albanian.
LET IT GO.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 15, 2010 17:58:22 GMT -5
I have met so called V-I's here also ...to me most are 2 faced and also have Greek friends that say the same ...
some even play us while sitting at same table ...telling me something in albanian lingo then they saying something in greek to my Greek friends. they leave and then me and my Greek friends dissect the gist of what was said by these so called Greeks from Albania most of my Greeks friends end up saying same as me ------> "2 faced" (mind you my greek friends I know for over 20 years)
then you have the 2 brothers from there ....one says he is greek the other says he is albanian....their mother meets my mother and they are Albanian ....In church they are nothing but Greeks according to my Greek friends ....
then you have some I played with when I was a child we spoke Albanian and english (their Albanian was very very proper) they were kids of Orthodox Albs from Korca areas's their families partied with our families in the 1960's ... in the 1980's-90's I meet them again ....but now they dont speak albanian or no recollection of ever being Albanian...but now they are totally Greek bcs they married some rich greek guys only child .
something like Pyrros being serbian maybe .....hahhhahahahah
HEY ------>>>> CAN WE CALL IT THE PYRROS SYNDROME
I can think we can all agree on that one
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 15, 2010 18:39:24 GMT -5
Thats gotta be one of Rexxys longest post...
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Post by emily33 on Aug 15, 2010 18:57:52 GMT -5
rex, it is not uncommon for Greek minority people to be discriminated against by Greek 'natives'. Natives think greek-albanians are pretending to be Greek also. These 'Greek monority' people know this and have complained of discimmination from both sides. It's a fact. It happened to the pontians too. This is what makes them 'two-faced'. They know they are looked down upon by albs and greeks...hence a complex. What's even 'weirder' is how some people from the same village accuse each other of being 'two-faced'. Maybe this is what causes fanatics in that region.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Aug 15, 2010 19:30:37 GMT -5
I have slavic people in my village that can play off as perfect speaking Albanian ....but they will always tell you what they truly are
these so called 2 faced people created their own confusion I imagine
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 15, 2010 20:49:16 GMT -5
yeah ok....kanaris, kastorianos, karta and Tosmpanos must all be albanian too. Albq, rex and a few other albs should be Greek or turkish since you guys don't 'fit the mold'. Some of the stuff that I read here is ridiculous. Greeks have been in what is today's southern albania since the 4th c BC but oh no...according to donnie they learned Greek from being near the seacoast. Yes, that must be it. There is centuries of history of these people yet you still believe in your own conspiracy theories. Dont get all hyped there butch, as I said, I consider them Greeks
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 15, 2010 20:59:45 GMT -5
Eva don't waste your breath... they believe that because thats what their parents and grandfathers told them... it's not written in any books... that we know of...
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Post by kartadolofonos on Aug 15, 2010 21:07:54 GMT -5
The Albanian Propaganda starts since Hoxha and continuing today against the Northern Greek Epirotes This is the ideological problem of the Albanians with Chimara. Albanians who crowd this summer in Himara would show a more violent annoyance that our region has such a strong Greek character. Albanians believe (many in good faith) that the residents of Himara have no Greek origin.They say they learned Greek in recent years when he went to Greece to find work. They bombard the mind that they are not Greeks but Albanians who betrayed the albanian language and the background to imitate the Greeks. åëëáò [glow=gold,2,300] Αριστοτέλης Γκούμας[/glow] Με τη γαλανόλευκη τάφηκε ο Αριστοτέλης. Το όνομά του θα γραφτεί με χρυσά γράμματα στο πάνθεον των ηρώων της Χιμάρας. Ολοκληρώθηκε η τελετή της ταφής του Αριστοτέλη Γκούμα, του ανθρώπου που τον σκότωσαν ενεργούμενα, γιατί … μίλαγε ελληνικά. Η σωρός του νεκρού μεταφέρθηκε στην κεντρική εκκλησία της Χιμάρας, τους Αγίους Πάντες, κοντά στο σημείο της δολοφονίας. Τον άτυχο βιοπαλαιστή συνόδευσαν χιλιάδες Χιμαραίοι και άλλοι Έλληνες από άλλες περιοχές της βόρειας και νότιας Ηπείρου, μαζί με μερικούς Αλβανούς φίλους της Ειρήνης. Το σώμα του άτυχου Αριστοτέλη δέχθηκε η γη που τον γέννησε, στο νεκροταφείο της Παναγίας. Το φέρετρό του ήταν καλυμμένο με τη γαλανόλευκη σημαία, που τόσο αγαπούσε και για την οποία θυσιάστηκε. Η συγκίνηση και ο θυμός του λαού ήταν διάχυτος, αλλά δεν σημειώθηκε το παραμικρό έκτροπο, ούτε καν φραστικό.
Μεταξύ άλλων, στην τελευταία του κατοικία συνόδευσαν τον Αριστοτέλη Γκούμα, ο δήμαρχος Χιμαραίων και πρόεδρος της Ομόνοιας Βασίλης Μπολάνος και ο πρόεδρος του κόμματος της Ένωσης των Ανθρωπίνων Δικαιωμάτων κ. Ευάγγελος Ντούλες.
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Post by albquietman on Aug 15, 2010 21:49:17 GMT -5
Defending and being on the side of whoever claims to be greek in Albania, probably you guys think that its your patriotic duty, as your governments think, but you don't know that actually you're not helping these people, but in some way, you're making their life miserable.
Your governments are giving money to these people to claim their greekness, in order to fulfill the illusion about South Albania being part of Greece. I used the word illusion, because that will never happen.
The albanian governments so far have been weak, financially and politically, and in some cases depended on greek funds, especially in the early 90s. But in the future, lets say 50 years from now, things will be better for Albania, and when they do, the albanian governments will be more active and in better shape financially, and they will not allow anymore the greek government and greek charities to give free money to albanians in order to claim that they are greeks. So the number of "greeks" in Albania will be significantly lower, because the "paid to be greek" albanians will be again albanians, and since Albania was threatened from Greece and its territorial claims before, we we'll make sure that the greek minority numbers will be minimal, and some of the rights that they do have now, like schools and Universities will be unnecessary. The albanian orthodox church will be independent, the patriarch albanian, and we'll put all of our efforts to make sure that what is happening now, to not happen again.
And all our reaction will be just because you and your country are taking advantages of our situation now, to make possible your illusion about Megali Elada. And that's your agenda, not because you care about the people and their lives, because if you cared about them, you won't tell these people to show their animosity toward albanians, when some of them have no other option but to live amongst albanians, unless they go to Greece.
Yo can tell that these people are taught to behave the way they do, even greekscandal pointed that out, their robotic and programmed behavior and the anti albanian slogans that they shout every time they get together when something happen, like the last incident, just because the killer happen to be albanian, because if he was greek, nobody would have cared for the guy that got killed, let alone being a hero as they call him now.
So guys, let these people alone, they live in Albania, if they choose to be greek, it's their problem, you and your governments have no business telling them what to say and what to do, because they are albanian citizens, not greek citizens. If you can't live without them, take them in your country and be happily ever after...
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 15, 2010 21:56:38 GMT -5
Eva don't waste your breath... they believe that because thats what their parents and grandfathers told them... it's not written in any books... that we know of... LOL, you just said my analysis was "interesting" and now it's "dont waste your breath Eva" .. make up your mind Kanaris. And as I said earlier, theyre very much Greeks, and theyve considered themselves as such for some time. I recognize their Greekness. But history cannot be ignored for that fact, and I choose to not ignore it for two reasons; 1) to dispel the myth of Greek continuity since antiquity. There were ancient and medieval Greek settlements in the area, true, but they were long gone before these new Greeks came along. 2) To fvck around with himariotes who think they're pure Greeks like Pyrros Dimas, Bolanos or other douchebags ;D Look at the names of quarteers of the three Greek-speaking villages of Himara and Dhermi-Palase and compare them to the Moslem village of Kuci; Himara; Dhimaleksi, Dhimroku, Gjinlula, Gjinuci, Gjipeci, Gjobashi, Gjodedas, Gjojashe, Gjondhimitri, Gjovarfi, Gjovlashi, Likoka Dhermi-Palase; Cukenidha, Dukshoku, Dukxhema, Gjikandrucaj, Gjikdeda, Gjikuria, Gjileka, Gjinoci, Gjinocura, Gjondushi, Gjothajka, Kolgjoni, Kotava, Lekdushi, Cacgjoka, Dhikura, Gjondeda, Gjonkali, Nikdeda, Stratbilla Kuci; Gjokoni, Gjoklagji, Gjoveshi, Duksholla, Njonreci, Zakonika, Gjiguma, Gjihila, Gjikuta, Gjimuci, Gjipali, Gjitodhri, Gjodhima, Gjohelmi, Gjokbardhi, Gjokndrere, Gjomita, Gjomreshka, Gjomolla, Gjipllumi, Lagjinreu, Gjokgjine, Krismokoqurku, Gjolagjaj These are typical Albanian compositions of names that are still found in the Catholic north, Gjileka from Dhermi comes from Gjin Leka, John Alexander; Gjovarfi from Himara comes from Gjon Varfi, possibly Varfri, meaning John the poor; Kolgjoni from Dhermi-Palase comes from Kole Gjoni, Nicholas John etc. Interestingly one of the quarteers in Moslem Kuc is named Gjiguma, i.e. Gjin Guma, John Guma, or Goumas as the Greeks would say. There is a great possibility that that the first Guma patriarch came from the village of Kuc and settled in Himara, as this region was rich in movements. Likewise the quarteer of Lekdushi in Dhermi-Palase could get its name from immigrants who came from the village of Lekdush near Mallakaster. The Bollanos are definetely from Kurvelesh, where Ngadhnjyesi is from, they settled in Himara during the 1700s.
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Post by plisbardhi on Aug 15, 2010 22:42:36 GMT -5
Greece is truely a propaganda nation, as the Greeks here demonstrate very well with their lack of anything academic. For instance, that so called "muslim Albanian" propaganda (****) Eva posted is actually a catholic Albanian from the Shala region north of the Drin river. His name is Mar Lula, the same name that can be found in the Himara fara name combination of Gjin(-)lula. Hahaha
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Attack ideas & opinions NOT users.
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Post by Arxileas on Aug 15, 2010 23:01:13 GMT -5
I just LoVe the albanians responses in here, we have donnie the forum self made historian in his own little world to which doesn't make any sense at all, he's even made a remarkable claim of the illyrian parthini tribe having built the acropolis once back at the old illyrian forum LOL ;D...then we have all sorts of excuses and claims by the others.....Well i'm glad basili has opened his eyes, i know he was a die hard skeptic at first.....Hope the rest of the Greeks wake up also...See what communism has done to these people.
Enver Hoxia has instilled ideas in their heads / brain washed them...
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Post by kartadolofonos on Aug 15, 2010 23:21:03 GMT -5
This propaganda against the greek minority must stop who reproduce by the albanian media,newspaper and albanian shoolbooks and by the albanians authorities. This propaganda must be fought with measures that will hit the problem at its root. We urge the Albanian Government to take the following measures: Removal of Police Officers: Immediate removal of all police officers serving in the police station Himara. Involved in concealing the murder of Aristotle and the image that was broadcast during the first hours after the incident. Also systematically conceal violence against members of the Greek ethnic minority in the region of Himara. 2. Placing public notices in Greek: Placement in the whole area of Himara bilingual public signs in Albanian and Greek. This is an obligation of Albania under the Convention - A Framework for minorities who have signed.The placement of signs will be a formal message to all visitors in Himara the an rest of Albania, that the area resident citizens who belong to the Greek national minority. 3.Remove recognized minority areas: Albanian practice of arbitrary distinction between "qualified minority areas" and elsewhere, a purely Greek, such as Himara the Korce and Përmet whose inhabitants are "Albanians" must end soon. It is an issue that refers to divisions of the Hoxha era. 4. Greek language in public administration: public administration aimed at Himara should use the letters of the Greek language. No administrative or judicial act on residents Himara will not run if it is not written in Greek. 5.Creation of office to protect the Ethnic Greek Minority: Due to the increased number of incidents of violence in the region of Himara office calling for the creation of minority protection to be installed in the town of Himara. This office should be under the supervision of the OSCE High and staffed by personnel selected by the OSCE will be paid from the Albanian government. Παραδόθηκε ο δράστης της δολοφονίας του Αριστοτέλη Γκούμαgianniotis.blogspot.com/2010/08/blog-post_16.html
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 15, 2010 23:44:56 GMT -5
I just LoVe the albanians responses in here, we have donnie the forum self made historian in his own little world to which doesn't make any sense at all, he's even made a remarkable claim of the illyrian parthini tribe having built the acropolis once back at the old illyrian forum LOL ;D...then we have all sorts of excuses and claims by the others.....Well i'm glad basili has opened his eyes, i know he was a die hard skeptic at first.....Hope the rest of the Greeks wake up also...See what communism has done to these people. Enver Hoxia has instilled ideas in their heads / brain washed them... . Great comeback Continuing; in the Himara region, in former days, the people were divided into clans called fara, from farë meaning 'seed'. It is interesting to note that a large number of 'Greeks' in the two Greek speaking enclaves of Himara and Dhermi-Palase, we have a high number of faras that came from other regions with no Greek populations whatsoever, including Geg territories, e.g. Kruja. Thus in Dhermi, the fara of Gjileka that today consists of 110 households, was originally from Kruja. A famous member was Dhimiter Leka to whom De Rada dedicated his famous work "Këngët e Milosaos" (Songs of Milosao). The clan Milo of Dhermi are also from Kruja, as is the clan Koka. In Vuno, the Skuraj are from Kruja, and a branch of this clan settled in Himara (four households). The himariot clans of Kolika, Simo and Spiro are also said to be from the north, namely Dukagjin, whereas the Varfri clan of Himara are from Kruja. According to Petro Marko, a famous writer from Dhermi, only the clan of Parga are of Greek origin in this village. Coincidentally the Suliots claimed to have come from Kruja as well. Some fun facts for Eva and Arsileas ;D Ps Forgot to add this interesting quote from a document written in Latin, September 1500, published by Nicolae Iorga; " Hic, aquis lucidis indigenisque abundans, altera mari commeatus et supplementa recipere facilis, altera, pauci admodum custodientibus, qua continenti opponitur, superari non potest. Accole ejus Illyrii, quos nunc albaneses nuncupant, quamvis greca quoque lingua, perbarbare tamen, utantur .." Here the locals have an abundance of lucid water; some around the sea where they can retrieve everything necessary, while some remain poor,having difficulties traveling inland. The inhabitants of this land are Illyrians, called Albanians nowadays, though they also use the Greek language, but in barbarian style .." They obviously didnt speak Greek as their mother tongue.
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Post by Arxileas on Aug 16, 2010 0:38:47 GMT -5
What are you actually sugesting donnie ? The Principality of Epirus can also refer to the: Ancient Greek Kingdom of Epirus and Pyrrhus of Epirus or the Pashalik of Ali Pasha during the Ottoman occupation of Greece. Not to be confused with the Despotate of Arta
Δεσποτάτο της Ηπείρου Despotate of Epirus ← 1205–1479 → The Latin Empire, Empire of Nicaea, Empire of Trebizond, and the Despotate of Epirus, ca. 1210 Capital Arta, Ioannina from 1358 to 1416 Religion Eastern Orthodox Church Government Autocracy Despot - 1205 - 1214 Michael I Komnenos Doukas - 1448 – 1479 Leonardo III Tocco Historical era High Medieval - Established 1205 - Disestablished 1479
The Despotate or Principality of Epirus (Greek: Δεσποτάτο της Ηπείρου) was one of the Byzantine Greek successor states of the Byzantine Empire that emerged in the aftermath of the Fourth Crusade in 1204. It claimed to be the legitimate successor of the Byzantine Empire, along with the Empire of Nicaea, and the Empire of Trebizond. Conquered by the Serbian Kingdom in 1337, it was restored in 1356 and had existed until the Ottoman conquest in 1479.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Despotate_of_EpirusYou do know who the Byzantine Empire consisted off right ?.
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Post by Arxileas on Aug 16, 2010 0:55:55 GMT -5
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 16, 2010 1:07:02 GMT -5
Wtf did you just write Arsileas? What point were you trying to convey? Nothing of what you wrote made sense or adressed what I'd written earlier. Weak. What does that link have to do with the ethnic makeup of medieval Himara?
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Post by Arxileas on Aug 16, 2010 1:33:45 GMT -5
Eva don't waste your breath... they believe that because thats what their parents and grandfathers told them... it's not written in any books... that we know of... You're right as we can see our new highduke here who makes extraordinary claims of none Greek speakers and we show him rich sources of Greenness in the region way before the era he's referring to and after wards on many occasions as far as last year of more Greeks being in Northern Epirus region then albanains were say 100 years ago....Now he comes up with the classic slogan..."Wft was that !" The world doesn't work with "wft was that" lol astous treli eine !
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 16, 2010 1:58:18 GMT -5
If you'd bothered actually reading what I wrote before acting smart, you would have seen I acknowledged Greek presence in the region during the antiquity and the middle age. What I question is the continuity from those days to modern times. Some Greeks would like to think that the "vorio epirotes" of today are direct descendants of ancient epirotes, which is false. For instance the Greeks of Dropull were only brought in during the Ottoman period from Attica as laborers in the estates of rich Moslem landlords. Likewise the toponym does not come fro Drinopolis but from the Slavic Drinopolje, "field of river Drino".
The same with Himara region. Well, a little different; here we're dealing with what I described earlier, a process similiar to that of Suliots and Arvanites.
Understand now Arselieas?? So in effect, you didnt even respond to anything that I wrote, only imaginary claims and arguments.
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