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Post by tsompanos on Oct 25, 2010 7:58:27 GMT -5
i dont understand how arvanites could have been brainwashed when many of them had high political positions infact if you listen to albanians some bulgarians and the other bulgarians (the fyromskies) then greeks brainwashed alot of people into grecomans oh and some romanians say greeks brainwashed vlachs to be greeks etc well in that case there must be like 10 supergreeks hidden in a cave somewhere mind controlling everyone.
one thing greece did wich can be considered stupid in some ways though is that it expelled all greek muslims and there was alot of them even today some of their families know greek.
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Post by tsompanos on Oct 25, 2010 8:00:25 GMT -5
Not to digress from this topic, but Greeks have a habit of claiming everything is Greek. At least Albanians have the sense (well some do) to not claim everything is Albanian. We understand that we lived with our neighbor over time and we have adopted some things from them and vice-versa. The fact that many historians consider the fustanella Albanian absolutely kills the Greek. The Albanian past of Greece even eats the Greek alive. It is what it is. Other people would accept it and move on. But with the case of Greeks, they claim everything on the merit they are "ancient Greeks." LOL. dude i couldnt care less who has the "trademark" or whatever on fustanella folk traditions , clothing etc doesnt really have borders or atleast didnt in the past years. |
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Post by atdhetari on Oct 25, 2010 8:09:27 GMT -5
i'm sorry but i was patrinos i would keep my mouth shut, you have been owned by someone who clearly knows what he is talking about, this is what i mean but refuting claims, well done bato! |
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Post by atdhetari on Oct 25, 2010 8:18:37 GMT -5
Koundourioti what a nice Albanian name just like Kastrioti.... where's the missing link?Clearly you guys must ask yourselves WTF..how come these names sound like this? doesn't matter coz u can take any albanian name and flip it around by adding the iotis suffix, besides most names were derived from byzantine religious names so they were quite common and its no secret people overlapped in those times. luan shabani, leonidas siabanis salos beritsiotis, u become greek as easy as that, to use names to apply nationalities is not something that can be taken seriously, especially in the albo-greek context. ok, that's ur opinion, u may chose to aply your way of reasoning to define the world around you but that don't make it right, u may chose to call black white and vice versa. |
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 8:41:34 GMT -5
bato, continue posts sources that can say as much as tens of others contemporary, calling this kilt either greek or albanian.
The fact is that fustanella in Albania was used in the south, and the dirty Tosks were too few and culturaly small to effect other groups, like Greeks, Vlachs, and the Slavs northern of Greece till Bulgaria.
THERE ISN'T ANY SOURCE THAT CAN DOCUMENT THE USAGE OF THE PLEATED KILT BEFORE 18TH CENTURY. SHOW US ONE SOURCE. VENETIANS WROTE THOUSANDS OF PAGES IN THEIR STAYING IN THE AREA FROM 14TH TO 18TH CENTURY AND THEY'VE NOTICED ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
I've posted above what the Arvanites of Attica wore in the second half of the 17th century and THATS AN ORIGINAL SOURCE!
bato even posted an engraving of 1877 to be of 17th century....!!!!! To not understand by the first view that the dress and the drawing is from the 19th century and not 17th century shows lack of any serious knowledge or brainwashed mind.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 9:05:14 GMT -5
This is the story of the Greek fustanella/dressing:  6th century Greek, from the "House of Jerakaris" in Argos  Greek manuscript, 8th century  Greek manuscript, 9th century  Greek manuscript, 10th century  11-12th century Greek warriors(akrites)  Akritas from the same era  Greek manuscript, 13th century  Greek manuscript, 15th century  Greeks, 1486  Greek, 16th century  Sfakian Greeks, 16th century  17th century Greeks  Greeks, 19th century  Arcadian Greeks, early 20th century  Tsakonas, everyday dress  Spetsiotes Arvanites  Albanian, Gentile Bellini, 15th century |
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 10:10:21 GMT -5
Its out of topic, but i found it interesting. From a Greek manuscript of 11th century.  opa! opa! |
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Post by atdhetari on Oct 25, 2010 10:21:17 GMT -5
are those photos off a greek blogspot? nuff said, besides there is no continuity stop clutching at straws
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Post by mansterofsouli on Oct 25, 2010 10:26:31 GMT -5
^^^^ Dude they think any great hero of Greece worth mentioning was Albanian. They have what the world calls "illusions of grandeur". isn't it delusions of grandeur? get the diagnosis right well, my friend, it does not help that these heros spoke albanian, wore albanian style costumes and historians regard them as such. The meaning is the same smart guy. Means you think your greater than you really are. If you were "edumacated" you would understand this genius. |
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Post by mansterofsouli on Oct 25, 2010 10:38:04 GMT -5
are those photos off*greek blogspot? nuff said, besides there is no continuity stop clutching at straws What do you mean their is no continuity? |
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bato2
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Post by bato2 on Oct 25, 2010 11:24:33 GMT -5
Like i said, i provided you with :
Documented facts(by historians, writers,ect)
Artistic facts(paintings by Great Masters as indisputable)
Photographic facts
Those Byzantine dressings look more like Venetian style
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Post by atdhetari on Oct 25, 2010 11:33:11 GMT -5
are those photos off*greek blogspot? nuff said, besides there is no continuity stop clutching at straws What do you mean their is no continuity? there is no progression of fustanella in a greek sense |
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 25, 2010 11:51:57 GMT -5
It's the national costume of Greece. What's Albania's? Where are the pics of Kastrioti wearing one?
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Oct 25, 2010 11:57:21 GMT -5
What do you mean their is no continuity? there is no progression of fustanella in a greek sense this is where they fail completely to show of any progression with, as us Pelasgo-Illyro-Albo's do ......and they hate it ;D     [youtube] ![/youtube] |
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 12:06:16 GMT -5
It's the national costume of Greece. What's Albania's? Where are the pics of Kastrioti wearing one? Like i said, i provided you with : Documented facts(by historians, writers,ect) Artistic facts(paintings by Great Masters as indisputable) Photographic facts Those Byzantine dressings look more like Venetian style You posted a big meaningless nothing... I also posted you what Albos wore during the 15th century by Bellini, and you posted some 1900 postcards from Skodra...and an 1877 engraving that you claimed to be from 17th century LOL... great documented artistic fact...  ... The depiction by Bellini agrees what that contemporary Albanian guy Demetio Franco (http://www.kulturserver-hamburg.de/home/shkodra/phoenix_05/phoenix_05_art11.html) drawn:   Kastrioti attacks. ![]() Comentario de le cose de' Turchi, et del S. Georgio Scanderbeg, principe d' Epyr. Venice: Altobello Salkato, 1480.[/img] Albanian by Gentile Bellini, 1480 All agreeing with the modern view of the albanian dress of 15 century:   These are facts gentlemen...not some underlined texts you find in burreshkiptar.com... |
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 12:13:09 GMT -5
The two first depictions are the most contemporary pictures of depicting Albanians at this age, by an Albanian hand!
It can't be bato to be right in 2010 and that albo Dhemeter Frangu be wrong at 1480......yes?
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Oct 25, 2010 12:13:10 GMT -5
ahhahah those are cartoon comic books pics Patra,maybe from Henry Potter movies  we give you old real pics and sculptors and then real now time albanians wearing them   |
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 12:17:04 GMT -5
ahhahah those are cartoon comic books pics Patra we give you old real pics and sculptors and then real now time albanians wearing them do you mean the two last... you are talking sshhit but ignore them...look at the three first...  and cut that crap with that hat...you are ridiculous. And since you like Odysseus and his hat... write to us some words in the language of Odysseus... |
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Post by toskaliku on Oct 25, 2010 12:18:32 GMT -5
Medieval depictions on books are not designed to show the style of clothes of a certain country but rather the clothing as understood from the culture writing the book, in that case German copy of an Italian book. Otherwise we are to assume that this is a realistic depiction of Aeneas and Troy: images.easyart.com/i/prints/lg/3/0/304554.jpg Or that this was actually the school of Athens: www.penwith.co.uk/artofeurope/raphael_school_of_athens.jpgFact is that contemporaries of 1821 documented the transportation of the fustanella from Albania to Greece. That is universal. Something some internet "historian" blogger cannot ignore. |
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 12:21:30 GMT -5
you are an idiot or you're playing it... ? According to your logic no depiction has any value... The way that this Frangu depicted the Ottomans properly he didn't have any reason to depict Albanians non realistic, since that tall hats are recorded to be worn by Albos... The same goes for Bellini's. we ..."took" the fustanella in 1821...? LOL...wasn't the Arvanites that brought them to us 4-5 centuries before??? ... decide what you propose guys...don't confuse your little alvanika minds... |
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