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Post by atdhetari on Oct 25, 2010 0:48:04 GMT -5
^^^^ Dude they think any great hero of Greece worth mentioning was Albanian. They have what the world calls "illusions of grandeur". isn't it delusions of grandeur? get the diagnosis right well, my friend, it does not help that these heros spoke albanian, wore albanian style costumes and historians regard them as such. |
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Kanaris
Amicus
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 25, 2010 0:59:21 GMT -5
Okay they were Albanians that loved Greeks and gave us a hand for the common enemy... in my book they were okay....Just stop over dramatizing this whole thing....
Is that good enough for you? ;D
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Post by greek1234 on Oct 25, 2010 2:54:48 GMT -5
^^^^ Dude they think any great hero of Greece worth mentioning was Albanian. They have what the world calls "illusions of grandeur". isn't it delusions of grandeur? get the diagnosis right well, my friend, it does not help that these heros spoke albanian, wore albanian style costumes and historians regard them as such. Give me some names, then we can talk about it. I think you're confused. |
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Post by tsompanos on Oct 25, 2010 2:55:53 GMT -5
according to all theese "sources" greece should be albania
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Post by tsompanos on Oct 25, 2010 2:58:02 GMT -5
I'm just curious, do Pontic Greeks wear the fustanella? Here you have the Pontic traditional dress, similar with Nisiotiko and Cretan(That was very common in Greece before they borrowed from Albanians)  pontic costumes are like the laz (north east turkey or like the georgians) anyhow albanians in north albania dont really wear fustanella as their traditional dress either so where do you want to get with this? |
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Post by tsompanos on Oct 25, 2010 3:00:04 GMT -5
oh and even in epirus all the traditional outfits arent with fustanella
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Post by greek1234 on Oct 25, 2010 3:02:17 GMT -5
It seems the issue of the origins foustanella is debatable. Someone really need to clear things up. One thing that annoyed me was, one of the Albanians posted a page from a book that mentions some guy called Colocotronis, and that he was an Albanian. If your talking about the great Theodorus Kolokotronis from the Morea this is an insult. The black mustached Kolokotronis was Greek inside out. His origins had nothing to do with Arvanites or Vlachs. He was Greek one hundred per cent. Please have some respect for the man, he is a national hero in the Morea. i think that if you conduct some serious unbiased research and ignore the propaganda bullsht on either side you will find that fustanella is a tosk traditional costume and kolokotroni was of albanian stock, whether he regarded himself as a greek or lived life like one is of no importance to me, we are talking are origins. there are foreign respectable authors that have written these things and i have enough sense to look past regional squabblings and listen to an external source for the truth Sorry but this is just propaganda. I think you're confused. There is no way Kolokotronis was an Albanian or an Arvanite. He was thoroughly Greek. He came from the same part of Greece as my family does. Our ancestors wore the foustanella, our land gave birth to Kolokotronis and Pappa Flessas. |
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bato2
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Art Changed The World
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Post by bato2 on Oct 25, 2010 4:07:37 GMT -5
Here you have the Pontic traditional dress, similar with Nisiotiko and Cretan(That was very common in Greece before they borrowed from Albanians) pontic costumes are like the laz (north east turkey or like the georgians) anyhow albanians in north albania dont really wear fustanella as their traditional dress either so where do you want to get with this? ^^ North Albania Fustanella, Shkoder 18century    |
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bato2
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Art Changed The World
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Post by bato2 on Oct 25, 2010 4:21:48 GMT -5
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Post by atdhetari on Oct 25, 2010 5:19:47 GMT -5
i think that if you conduct some serious unbiased research and ignore the propaganda bullsht on either side you will find that fustanella is a tosk traditional costume and kolokotroni was of albanian stock, whether he regarded himself as a greek or lived life like one is of no importance to me, we are talking are origins. there are foreign respectable authors that have written these things and i have enough sense to look past regional squabblings and listen to an external source for the truth Sorry but this is just propaganda. I think you're confused. There is no way Kolokotronis was an Albanian or an Arvanite. He was thoroughly Greek. He came from the same part of Greece as my family does. Our ancestors wore the foustanella, our land gave birth to Kolokotronis and Pappa Flessas. lets agree to disagree |
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Post by atdhetari on Oct 25, 2010 5:23:01 GMT -5
isn't it delusions of grandeur? get the diagnosis right well, my friend, it does not help that these heros spoke albanian, wore albanian style costumes and historians regard them as such. Give me some names, then we can talk about it. I think you're confused. there is no point, they have been mentioned over and over |
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Post by atdhetari on Oct 25, 2010 5:27:38 GMT -5
Okay they were Albanians that loved Greeks and gave us a hand for the common enemy... in my book they were okay....Just stop over dramatizing this whole thing.... Is that good enough for you? ;D i'm not, i know they're a lost cause, for all intents and purposes they are greeks now, no one is trying to use them as an instrument to bring greece down |
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 5:36:37 GMT -5
Karta ignorant like always where is the facts?...Stop crying like a bitch and complaning I gave you countless facts and documents to prove that Greeks adopted Albanian fustanella as their national dress after the Greek revolution. Truth hurts ;D yes sure... and before that they wore jeans... As I said, even the 2/3 of the Arvanites in Greece wore vraka. ANd in Euboia for example where the south is full of Arvanites, they wore the "kavontoritikes vrakes" while the grecophone middle and north of the island wore the fustanella...what was going on there? did they exchanged costumes when they established? The Arberesh borrowed those from Albania in the 70s. They are not part of the traditional Arberesh clothing, which were entirely Italian looking. No you are wrong I got a catalogue with all Arberesh costumes which i got it as a gift from Antonio Bellusci in 1995. Is quite common fustanella specially in Piemontesa,Cozenza, Pianna degli Albanezi, Badhesa don't be idiot. there is no way that Arberesh wore fustanela...  A 17century gravure 17th century ? LOL ...its from 1877.  Do Tourkoalbs wear a fustanella..... What does fustanella mean in Albanian and did Kastrioti wear one? Got angry, old man?.... First Fustanella- fustan(dress in Albanian) About Scanderbeg we have to ask his personal photographer if he's got any pictures of him wearing fustanelle   From Illyrian tomb Fustanella is an italian word. As fustani. Both used in Greek. It seems the issue of the origins foustanella is debatable. Someone really need to clear things up. One thing that annoyed me was, one of the Albanians posted a page from a book that mentions some guy called Colocotronis, and that he was an Albanian. If your talking about the great Theodorus Kolokotronis from the Morea this is an insult. The black mustached Kolokotronis was Greek inside out. His origins had nothing to do with Arvanites or Vlachs. He was Greek one hundred per cent. Please have some respect for the man, he is a national hero in the Morea. i think that if you conduct some serious unbiased research and ignore the propaganda bullsht on either side you will find that fustanella is a tosk traditional costume and kolokotroni was of albanian stock, whether he regarded himself as a greek or lived life like one is of no importance to me, we are talking are origins. there are foreign respectable authors that have written these things and i have enough sense to look past regional squabblings and listen to an external source for the truth Kolokotronis was of ...albanian stock... LOL... you can't even pronounce his name ... pontic costumes are like the laz (north east turkey or like the georgians) anyhow albanians in north albania dont really wear fustanella as their traditional dress either so where do you want to get with this? ^^ North Albania Fustanella, Shkoder 18century Yes sure... none in northern or central Albania wore fustanella. These must be ceremonial costumes not the way the averaga katundar malok wore... |
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Patrinos
Amicus
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 5:40:50 GMT -5
the funny thing is that the majority of the albos here who are kosovars, central and northern albanians had their ancestors wearing that ugly slavic tight pants... and probably looking down those who wore the fustanella...
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Post by atdhetari on Oct 25, 2010 5:44:04 GMT -5
still, it doesn't make fustanella any less albanian,
besides you shouldn't be mad at albanians for posting up evidence written by numerous foreign authors, if you can refute the go ahead.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 25, 2010 6:10:30 GMT -5
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bato2
Moderator
Art Changed The World
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Post by bato2 on Oct 25, 2010 6:33:33 GMT -5
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Kanaris
Amicus
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Post by Kanaris on Oct 25, 2010 6:40:53 GMT -5
Koundourioti what a nice Albanian name just like Kastrioti.... where's the missing link?Clearly you guys must ask yourselves WTF..how come these names sound like this?
It's like us having a national hero by the name of Berisha...
I really don't care how many pages you and Rex paste in here... to me it don't make a difference .... I always will maintained that Arvanites were Greek that lived amongst you.To the odd traveler that wrote about them clearly they were confused... and one copied what the other said.Today in Albania these elements have disappeared.
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bato2
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Art Changed The World
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Post by bato2 on Oct 25, 2010 6:45:01 GMT -5
Brainwashing for all those centuries has worked well..... ;D I bring you facts.... Lord Byron, in Childe Harolds Pilgrimage, observed the ...Albanian kirtled to the knee, and T.S. Finlay in his Travels through Greece and Albania states, unequivocally, that It was the fame of the Albanians which induced the modern Greeks to adopt the Albanian kilt as their national costume "...the foustanella, the famous Greek kilt, is said by many to be a version of
the Albanian warrior's costume, and is sometimes called the Albanian kilt...
~Dinner with Persephone~Patricia Storace 1996 - Page 164  here is a painting of Northern Albanian in fustanella(from Serbian painter Paja Jovanovic, 1884)   Kapedan Celo Picari in the Greek parliament  |
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Post by logjiktek on Oct 25, 2010 7:14:59 GMT -5
Not to digress from this topic, but Greeks have a habit of claiming everything is Greek. At least Albanians have the sense (well some do) to not claim everything is Albanian. We understand that we lived with our neighbor over time and we have adopted some things from them and vice-versa. The fact that many historians consider the fustanella Albanian absolutely kills the Greek. The Albanian past of Greece even eats the Greek alive. It is what it is. Other people would accept it and move on. But with the case of Greeks, they claim everything on the merit they are "ancient Greeks." LOL.
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