Greek and Albanian National costume !!

[atdhetari]

patrinos is well on his way there

[rex362]

ahahhah but I doubt Patrino would ever do a Pyrros move like that

[Patrinos]

Nov 20, 2010 19:28:09 GMT -5 ace said:

I agree with you that it is a natural evolution of traditional clothing that was introduced to the Greeks by the Albanian southwards migration in the 14 century onward but you must state its origin and accept that Fustanella as it should be (I’ve seen your previous picture, not every style of clothing that goes to the knee is fustanella) is Albanian and then we are ok, nobody is stopping you from wearing it.

That is what Albos wore in the 15th century. And Arvanites are recorded to wear in the 17th century "kontovrakia"(short vraka) by foreigner travellers.
All the other are bs...

And who were the south Tosks numerically, culturaly, politically to have ability to influence all that people that wore fustanella: Greeks, Vlachs, Slavkos even Romanians...?

Give me any source(original please) that state that Albos wore fustanella in lets say 15-16-17 centuries... NONE!!!!

Instead:
Greek villager, ca 1687


thanks you ;D

[toskaliku]

We dont need to give anything to you. Most literature out there supports our ground, including numerous Greek historians and professors.

Thank youu

[Patrinos]

Nov 21, 2010 13:28:03 GMT -5 @toskaliku said:

We dont need to give anything to you. Most literature out there supports our ground, including numerous Greek historians and professors.

Thank youu

i want real sources not from 1960's...

at least some optical ones...like the one above...

Tthanks yoou

[toskaliku]

I dont have time to feed this website with nonsense. I have 300 lines of Medea to translate and scan the meter of by Monday morning.

[laughingwolf]

Just go with iambic hexameter

[Patrinos]

Nov 21, 2010 13:51:41 GMT -5 @toskaliku said:

I dont have time to feed this website with nonsense. I have 300 lines of Medea to translate and scan the meter of by Monday morning.

Translate from ancient Greek? But to say it politely...you are almost clueless...

and btw read your own forum...

"Clothing of the manly men. They all wear broadcloth garments and tight buttoned trousers with a teybend silk waistband and kubadi shoes. On their heads, they wear Albanian calpacs made of sable. Both learned scholars (ulema) and rakish youths (levendât) alike carry kortela knives in their belts, and the youth are never to be seen without their swords and shields."

Read more: illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=shqiperiaalbania&action=display&thread=32026#ixzz15wdgFZvx

not kilts or whatever...

[toskaliku]

Nov 21, 2010 13:54:41 GMT -5 @laughingwolf said:

Just go with iambic hexameter

Dactylic Hexameter is only for Epic. The meter for drama is much much more difficult and it includes Hexameter at times alongside Iambic Trimeter (which is harder) and during choral odes it gets even more difficult... and at times unnatural for the language

[toskaliku]

I dont need to have a clue to agree with scholarly consensus instead of some unemployed nationalist blogger

[Patrinos]

Nov 21, 2010 14:04:57 GMT -5 @toskaliku said:

I dont need to have a clue to agree with scholarly consensus instead of some unemployed nationalist blogger

will you pay others to do the translation for you? if not, do it.. its an advice..

[toskaliku]

Who would I pay? The Latin and Greek department has like 10 people in it. We are only surviving on account of the need for tradition. The professor of Greek in the school is scared of anymore funding being pulled out of his department. Even with an 850 dollar stipend to anyone who takes Greek beyond 101, he barely gets more than 5-6 students in his class. Latin is more lucky than Greek, it has an average of 15-20 students.

Classics is dying a slow and painful death. Im probably one of four actual decided majors in the whole school.

And Medea is easy. Only Thucydides gives me nightmares... and Plato.

[Patrinos]

and since you are a... decided major in classics, what's your level?
Can you understand Thoucidides or at least Strabon...?

"Αρχεται δὲ ὁ πόλεμος ἐνθένδε ἤδη ᾿Αθηναίων καὶ Πελοποννησίων καὶ τῶν ἑκατέροις ξυμμάχων, ἐν ᾧ οὔτε ἐπεμείγνυντο ἔτι ἀκηρυκτεὶ παρ' ἀλλήλους καταστάντες τε ξυνεχῶς ἐπολέμουν· γέγραπται δὲ ἑξῆς ὡς ἕκαστα ἐγίγνετο κατὰ θέρος καὶ χειμῶνα.
[2] Τέσσαρα μὲν γὰρ καὶ δέκα ἔτη ἐνέμειναν αἱ τριακοντούτεις σπονδαὶ α῏ ἐγένοντο μετ' Εὐβοίας ἅλωσιν·"
easy one...Θουκυδίδης...

[toskaliku]

I can read Thucydides yes. I took a class on him last semester. Strabo is nonsensically easy.

Greek in general is pretty easy, because of all the articles I know how to follow the constructions. Latin is actually far more difficult, too vague and brief.

The only thing difficult about Greek is how unorganized it is. It is troublesome to read an entire passage of Attic and then see a random Iolic verb thrown in that looks like an Attic first person middle plural but it actually an infinitive aorist. Latin is more Fascist and organized. Greek is too free form.

[ace]

So Patrinos according to your thinking all of these people are wearing fustanella

albanach.org/leine.html

Not every style of clothing that reaches the knee is fustanella, long garments are not fustanella.

[toskaliku]

What about that passage?Its the opening of the second book: From this point (and) time (my own translation of ἐνθένδε ἤδη, implying a sense of 'now' if Im correct) between the Athenians and Peloponnesians, and their allies on either side, is beginning (idiomatically: began). from this time on, they were no longer still intermingling (communicating) among each other without the need of a truce, and they, opposing, were fighting each other ceaselessly. He writes this (or this is written) in order as each occurred through summer and winter.

[Patrinos]

Nov 21, 2010 15:52:07 GMT -5 ace said:

So Patrinos according to your thinking all of these people are wearing fustanella

albanach.org/leine.html

Not every style of clothing that reaches the knee is fustanella, long garments are not fustanella.

Fustanella isn't something special and prototype, its an evolution of a "poukamisa"*( i think you call it kamishe), wit plaitings.

The sure thing is that Greeks and Albanians surely didn't wear it in the first centuries of the Ottoman period because surely it must have been recorded, but in contrast we have nothing to indicate its existence.
I don't believe we can assume that fustanella as we know it in 19-early 20th century was know in the beggining of the 1700's for example... no such indications...
Fustanella is a fashion that appeared in the ends of the 18th century in the south Balkan "world" without being able to know its...first designer.... since there wasn't any.
Fustanella "belongs" to who ever wore it, being Greek, Tosk, Vlach, Slavko, Bulgarian or whatever...
of course internetal albos in their full of agony struggle to find some parahistoric bs and feel ...prouder for their ..nation... who cares...

*
poukamisa is this:



shaped like this in the ends of 18th century...which is simply for many reasons cut the "poukamisa" in the middle, and increase the number of plaitings in order to show the higher social status....

[Patrinos]

Nov 21, 2010 16:14:41 GMT -5 @toskaliku said:

What about that passage?Its the opening of the second book: From this point (and) time (my own translation of ἐνθένδε ἤδη, implying a sense of 'now' if Im correct) between the Athenians and Peloponnesians, and their allies on either side, is beginning (idiomatically: began). from this time on, they were no longer still intermingling (communicating) among each other without the need of a truce, and they, opposing, were fighting each other ceaselessly. He writes this (or this is written) in order as each occurred through summer and winter.

does that mean(if you really know your translation) that you can understand modern Greek too?

[toskaliku]

I need to use the lexicon to translate the work, my vocab is weak in Greek. Modern Greek is very easy, very very easy, however ouk emoi eisi epoi . I need a bigger vocabulary. Greek and German have a very unique vocabulary since both can construct new words very easily and so dont have many loanwords.

[Patrinos]

Nov 21, 2010 14:18:17 GMT -5 @toskaliku said:

Classics is dying a slow and painful death. Im probably one of four actual decided majors in the whole school.
.

"Without Greek studies there is no education."

Leo Tolstoy, Russian writer