Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 20, 2010 5:39:41 GMT -5
What is there for me to check? I clearly said that i have the darn book in printed form, since the beginning. You start to not make sense at all.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 20, 2010 6:10:06 GMT -5
(various albanian reactions) Albanian, the main point of my argument, was not on the term "λαός" but on the term "ΠΛΕΙΣΤΟΣ" which of course in any form of greek means *most* and not "many". The fact that you chose to display a *possibility* that the translation of "λαός" might actually be correct (besides, however that in ancient and modern versions of greek ΛΑΟΣ=PEOPLE) and not verify straight ahead that the translation of "ΠΛΕΙΣΤΟΣ" (which is the important notion in this passage) is TOTALLY wrong, shows your motives. Which are to harm me, at any cost. Albanian, you have an agenda and are not interested in the truth in the slightest. ANSWER ME ALBANIAN!! IS THE TRANSLATION OF "ΠΛΕΙΣΤΟΣ" -> most or "very many" ? Lets show to us how much of a ..... greek you are... i didn't disagree about the translation of pleistos, but don't play the smart guy to non greek speakers when it comes to greek language... and the meaning of the sentece is totally different if he speaks about a "people" than speaking about "a group of people, an army" ...
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Patrinos
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Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 20, 2010 6:12:44 GMT -5
lol
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Post by terroreign on Dec 20, 2010 6:21:49 GMT -5
Documentation regarding Croatian "Kings" and "Kingdom" in general are all vague and often, contradicting. Tomislav is your most celebrated historical figure, I would think it matters lol. I really don't know where you get the idea Serbs didn't fight the Avars, because sources show they indeed did. The Croats did not arrive in the Balkans any earlier than the Serbs did, and there is evidence showing that Serbs were settled also on the Vardar river in FYROM. And if you actually think the Serb people were "almost wiped out" by a Bulgarian attack, I must tell you you're very far from an "objectivist". Its states "no more than 50", this is not presented as some approximation, but as an attempt at a precise account. But comes off as a middle-age smear campaign against the Serbs. The uninterrupted continuity of the Serbian dynasties during this time are a testament against this rather preposterous idea. Again, Serbian royal house of Vlastimirovic had an uninterrupted reign of the region, even under the Bulgarians. Against Simeon, the Serbian Zupans sided with Byzantine and fought him, Zaharije around 923 defeated the Bulgars, and in 924 Simeon captured Serbia, which only lasted until 927, after which the Serbs regained self-rule. "Tomislavo fratello di Vladislavo Re Slavo-Serbo durante la vita del fratello governava la Servia Montana, e dopo la di lui morte anche la Croazia. Combatte coi Principi Avari superstiti nell'Ungheria"books.google.com/books?id=LnYbAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA81&dq=Svetolik&lr=&as_brr=3#v=onepage&q=Svetolik&f=falseEven Dmitar Zvonimir who only ruled Croatia and Dalmatia, was cited in many sources as being given the "crown of Serbia and Croatia" by the Pope in 1076. books.google.com/books?id=5ARfs4r1rP0C&pg=RA2-PA172&dq=Suinimir&as_brr=3#v=onepage&q=Suinimir&f=falseBelos Vukanovic, Ban of Croatia 1142-1163.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 20, 2010 6:26:49 GMT -5
Want me to stick my degree or my pay check into your albanian ass to be satisfied?
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 20, 2010 6:29:10 GMT -5
Albanian, the main point of my argument, was not on the term "λαός" but on the term "ΠΛΕΙΣΤΟΣ" which of course in any form of greek means *most* and not "many". The fact that you chose to display a *possibility* that the translation of "λαός" might actually be correct (besides, however that in ancient and modern versions of greek ΛΑΟΣ=PEOPLE) and not verify straight ahead that the translation of "ΠΛΕΙΣΤΟΣ" (which is the important notion in this passage) is TOTALLY wrong, shows your motives. Which are to harm me, at any cost. Albanian, you have an agenda and are not interested in the truth in the slightest. ANSWER ME ALBANIAN!! IS THE TRANSLATION OF "ΠΛΕΙΣΤΟΣ" -> most or "very many" ? Lets show to us how much of a ..... greek you are... i didn't disagree about the translation of pleistos, but don't play the smart guy to non greek speakers when it comes to greek language... and the meaning of the sentece is totally different if he speaks about a "people" than speaking about "a group of people, an army" ... No albanian. It does not make a f**king difference. Apparently Serbs would not attack women and children, so by "LAOS" the author most probably meant male population. However, the IMPORTANT word is not people-crew-group of persons-army, etc etc etc what is important is that a) the main notion of the subjects of the bulgars was "LAOS" whatever that xlates into women, men, children or any combination of those. I dont f**king care : GENERALLY LAOS in ancient/byzantine/modern greek = PEOPLE. I cant imagine how "leoforeio" (bus) should carry only men!!! and not women. Or Laofilis, would be the one that most of men (and not women) consider popular. Basically you talk rubbish here to stall me.... And you try to fill pages about smth NOT important (LAOS=army) (and partially wrong) whereas you seat silent about PLEISTOS (=MOST") VS "very many". b) PLEISTOS (=MOST) of the "LAOS" was lost, and not just "very many". So you are a complete p**y, trying to deviate the conversation and distort the facts. The fact, that you chose to attack me (with no basis as the next post will show) proves that you preferred a sneaky attack on matters that the rest of the readers cannot check rather than verifying that my position was correct.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 20, 2010 6:34:32 GMT -5
Albanian: www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dlao%2Fs1You offered the first translation, there is also part 2: II. a people, i.e. all who are called by one name, first in Pi., “Δωριεῖ λαῷ” O.8.30; “Λυδῶν δὲ λαὸς καὶ Φρυγῶν” A.Pers.770; “ξύμπας Ἀχαιῶν λαός” S.Ph.1243, cf. OT144, etc.; ἱππόται λαοί, i.e. the Thessalians, Pi. P.4.153, cf. 9.54, N.1.17. (The resemblance between λαός people and λᾶος stone (cf. λᾶας) is implied in Il.24.611 λαοὺς δὲ λίθους ποίησε Κρονίων (in the story of Niobe); and so Pi. explains the word from the legend of Deucalion, O.9.46, cf. Epich.122, Apollod.1.7.2; but cf. Philoch.12.) (From λα_ϝ-, as shown by the pr.names “Λαϝοπτόλεμος” GDI3151, ϝιόλαϝος ib.3132 (Corinth): hence prob. λήϊτον.) So, translating LAOS->PEOPLE is semantically, statistically, contextually correct. NOW, if "people" in english, in a war-like- context mean only male soldiers and not just generic populace, that has nothing to do with my main position. You preferred to attack me, stall me, instead of aligning with the truth. Anyways, you verified the xlation of "Pleiston" so the case is now complete, even if it was harder than i thought. (because you are an albanian, a greek would immediately verify what i asked) pussy
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 20, 2010 6:38:36 GMT -5
and there is evidence showing that Serbs were settled also on the Vardar river in FYROM. And in northern Greece in the town of "Servia" (Serbia).
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 20, 2010 9:02:44 GMT -5
Other sources : (pre-DAI) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicle_of_MonemvasiaMiracles of St Demetrius I Miracles of St Demetrius II The siege of Thesaloniki is very informative about Sagudates, Vojnici, Dragocevci, etc... (Serbian tribes), lies... afgan serboi havent arrived on the bolkans at the time. But even if we accept you mean Serbo-croatian slavic group (southwestern slavs that in time were assimilated by the Serbs and the Croats), no, because around Thessaloniki the slavs have always been of the Bulgarian (southeastern) slavic group.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 20, 2010 10:29:00 GMT -5
My lillly delusional fabricator, at 614 AD (when the siege took place) a) the bulgars were simply not there (we can even say that the local EKAVICA-speaker slavs were not even aware of their existence) b) Bulgar were not listed as slavic in the first place
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 20, 2010 10:31:10 GMT -5
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 20, 2010 13:14:59 GMT -5
We didnt talk about Bulgars: stick to the topic please. We talk about the dagestani Serboi and they were NOT on the Bolkans in 614. A fact. If you talk about slavs from Serbo-croat group (western southslavic), they were non existent around Thessaloniki. Those were slavs from southeastern (Bulgarian) group.
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Patrinos
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Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 20, 2010 16:44:01 GMT -5
Want me to stick my degree or my pay check into your albanian ass to be satisfied? its 23:45... i guess its the time your wife is at work, in the strip club, and you continue your malakia...
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 20, 2010 16:46:58 GMT -5
We didnt talk about Bulgars: stick to the topic please. We talk about the dagestani Serboi and they were NOT on the Bolkans in 614. A fact. If you talk about slavs from Serbo-croat group (western southslavic), they were non existent around Thessaloniki. Those were slavs from southeastern (Bulgarian) group. these groups were created after their establishment in south balkans. consider these tribes bulgarian or serb in 600's is totally nonsense.... only broken minds like pyrros' can come up with such ideas... Serb fragile identity developed later when due to the power of the local kingdom of Raskia and Serbia people had something to unite them and differentiate them from the neighbouring almost "same" other slavic speaking people. I really can't find any criterion that make a village bulgarian and the next serbian in 11th century... can you help me? I mean did the Slavic speakers of Nis enslaved when they were under the Bulgarian rule?
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Post by terroreign on Dec 20, 2010 18:03:27 GMT -5
We didnt talk about Bulgars: stick to the topic please. We talk about the dagestani Serboi and they were NOT on the Bolkans in 614. A fact. If you talk about slavs from Serbo-croat group (western southslavic), they were non existent around Thessaloniki. Those were slavs from southeastern (Bulgarian) group. Oh really Ioan? In records from Bithynia in the year 680, the city of Gordoservon or Gordoserbon (Greek: Γορδόσερβον, Serbian: Srbograd, Grad Srba, Гордосервон) was a Byzantine city inhabited by Serbs. The name is derived from the Serbs that resettled in Asia Minor (in ca 649[1] or 667[2]) by Byzantine Emperor Constans II (641–668), who came from the areas "around the river Vardar". A "Bishop of Gordoservon" named Isidore is mentioned in 680/681, and the fact that this town was an episcopal seat gives ground to the thesis that it had a large Serbian population. ;D
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 20, 2010 18:25:00 GMT -5
guys... since i don't have an obsession with any nation here, like another "greek" over here... i can't see totally false and unhistorical things over here.... the town of Gordoservon is already recorded in 4th century and has nothing to do with Servoi-Serbs.... in Notitiae Episcopatuum 187 by Epiphanius... Serbs in 4th century Minor Asia is crazy...
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Post by terroreign on Dec 20, 2010 18:45:42 GMT -5
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 20, 2010 19:07:26 GMT -5
well this great historian may have done some mistakes... technology allowed us to have some usefull tools...like TLG(google it), and anyone can find any word written in the huge ammount of Greek texts from Homer to 1453, and searching "Γορδοσερβ**" it gives the following results:
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Post by terroreign on Dec 20, 2010 19:23:13 GMT -5
^The accuracy of such a thing is debatable. Since the "Notitiae Episcopatuum" written by "pseudo-Epiphanius" was actually written around 640, not the 4th century.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 20, 2010 19:36:23 GMT -5
^The accuracy of such a thing is debatable. Since the "Notitiae Episcopatuum" written by "pseudo-Epiphanius" was actually written around 640, not the 4th century. if the date is debateable, do we have any undebatable original source that connects that town with Servoi tribe? not that it has any further meaning but just for general knowledge's shake...
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