Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 20, 2011 8:36:31 GMT -5
Strelitsas, Pyrro, is 50/50. This word is both Bulgarian and Serbian and since it is mentioned nowhere the guy was Serbian, then it is obvious that it is your wishful thinking that determines his as such. p.s In those times the suffix 'itsa' was common among Bulgarians, now it is gone. As for Strelic - it doesn't play a single role in this dispute. Just as Strelov wouldn't. Look man, its not my fault that you have tried to erase the Serbian past of a large amount of your population. Strelicas - Strelic is basically the same surname. And found in southern Greece in 1400 and today in Yugoslavia. get over it.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 20, 2011 9:12:26 GMT -5
Strelicas - Strelic is basically the same surname. same name, different people (ethos). Like Petur (Bg) - Petros (Gr) Dimitur (Bg) - Dimitros (Gr).
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Post by terroreign on Jan 20, 2011 9:22:39 GMT -5
^notice that one derives from the other
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 20, 2011 9:29:55 GMT -5
yes Strelitsas derives from bg strelitsa (small arrow).
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 20, 2011 10:23:28 GMT -5
have i ever denied the obvious connection between names, toponyms starting with "voulg" "boulg" with Bulgaria? Careful with the certainties though. For example, a settlement Vourgaro, in Crete, which Vasmer connects with the Bulgarian name is considered by others to be derived from venetian burgo instead. Context when dealing with both toponyms and surnames is also important.
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Patrinos
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Peloponnesos uber alles
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Post by Patrinos on Jan 20, 2011 11:07:41 GMT -5
Context when dealing with both toponyms and surnames is also important. you ask very much from pyrrcko...
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Post by rusebg on Jan 20, 2011 12:01:28 GMT -5
As much as it pains me to support Pyrro, he is right about this special village. And I have been there, the name is actually Voulgaros. Objectivity sucks sometimes ;D
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donnie
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Nike Leka i Kelmendit
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Post by donnie on Jan 20, 2011 12:49:52 GMT -5
The 500 (i guess +1000 pre 1926) toponyms in Peloponese say another story. Those people were not under any Serb king, but they were practically 100% Serbs. Does the name "Strelitsas" (the person who founded the great Cretan school of painting - the one who produced El Greco) say anything to you? PS So are you saying that Serbs were capable of building so many things in such a short period? Your logic is self-contradictory by any view. The historical individual you're referring to was by all probability an Arvanitis, not a Serb. His full name was Θεοφάνης Στρελίτζας Μπαθας (Theophanes Strelitsas Bathas). The last part is linked to the Albanian word bathë 'bean' -- such names among our people, relating to flora and fauna, are by no means uncommon. Their origins was from Morea, Peloponessus, as members of the same family were mentioned to have lived in that peninsula at the end of the 15th century, their names were written down by the Venetians as 'Streliza Giovanni di Batha Streliza di Morea'. Likewise, one Constantine Streliza and his wife are mentioned to have granted the Church some sort of property/land/gift in 1457, right before Peloponessus was overrun by the Turks. Stratiotes with the same surname were also recorded elsewhere. In 1511, Venetian documents record one Michali Strigiza under the command of Domenik Buziqi; other members of the company, to illustrate the ethnic character of these people, were Martin Skura, Leka Sudi, Gin Malakechi, Gin Buzi etc.
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 20, 2011 14:16:58 GMT -5
And I have been there, the name is actually Voulgaros. It's possible that there are variants. Vasmer mentions a variant Βουργάρω (VourgAro as opposed to VoUrgaro). That seems to be the more popular name, along with Βουλγάρω (VoulgAro) (the alternation of r/l is trivial). Maybe Voulgaros, if that's how you heard it from the locals, is another one. As I said, context is important; obviously one of the two theories is wrong. The historical individual you're referring to... Sathas?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 3:36:19 GMT -5
yes Strelitsas derives from bg strelitsa (small arrow). We dont care about your specific Serbian dialect (Bulgarian). Fact is this surname was found among old Slavs-Serbs of Greece and modern Yugoslavs (Serbs). Live with it tatar.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 3:38:08 GMT -5
have i ever denied the obvious connection between names, toponyms starting with "voulg" "boulg" with Bulgaria? Careful with the certainties though. For example, a settlement Vourgaro, in Crete, which Vasmer connects with the Bulgarian name is considered by others to be derived from venetian burgo instead. Context when dealing with both toponyms and surnames is also important. ROYAL BULLSHIT. Did you notice the name of villages near Voulgaro? Topolia? Radovani? etc... are they venetian as well? LMAO!!! certain arbanovlahs would resort to connecting with anything Venetian-Italian-even ALBANIAN, as long as it is not slavic... pathetic!
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 3:39:11 GMT -5
The 500 (i guess +1000 pre 1926) toponyms in Peloponese say another story. Those people were not under any Serb king, but they were practically 100% Serbs. Does the name "Strelitsas" (the person who founded the great Cretan school of painting - the one who produced El Greco) say anything to you? PS So are you saying that Serbs were capable of building so many things in such a short period? Your logic is self-contradictory by any view. The historical individual you're referring to was by all probability an Arvanitis, not a Serb. His full name was Θεοφάνης Στρελίτζας Μπαθας (Theophanes Strelitsas Bathas). The last part is linked to the Albanian word bathë 'bean' -- such names among our people, relating to flora and fauna, are by no means uncommon. Their origins was from Morea, Peloponessus, as members of the same family were mentioned to have lived in that peninsula at the end of the 15th century, their names were written down by the Venetians as 'Streliza Giovanni di Batha Streliza di Morea'. Likewise, one Constantine Streliza and his wife are mentioned to have granted the Church some sort of property/land/gift in 1457, right before Peloponessus was overrun by the Turks. Stratiotes with the same surname were also recorded elsewhere. In 1511, Venetian documents record one Michali Strigiza under the command of Domenik Buziqi; other members of the company, to illustrate the ethnic character of these people, were Martin Skura, Leka Sudi, Gin Malakechi, Gin Buzi etc. Bathas was his nick name. Not the real surname. The surname was surely SERBIAN.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 3:41:39 GMT -5
As much as it pains me to support Pyrro, he is right about this special village. And I have been there, the name is actually Voulgaros. Objectivity sucks sometimes ;D Pyrros is all about truth. Not short-term interest. I would support anything Bulgarian, as long as it is true. And i am one of the very few greeks i know who *deeply* like Bulgarians. (ALL Bulgarians, except the ones hostile to Serbia and Greeks)
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Post by terroreign on Jan 21, 2011 3:46:36 GMT -5
The historical individual you're referring to was by all probability an Arvanitis, not a Serb. His full name was Θεοφάνης Στρελίτζας Μπαθας (Theophanes Strelitsas Bathas). The last part is linked to the Albanian word bathë 'bean' -- such names among our people, relating to flora and fauna, are by no means uncommon. Their origins was from Morea, Peloponessus, as members of the same family were mentioned to have lived in that peninsula at the end of the 15th century, their names were written down by the Venetians as 'Streliza Giovanni di Batha Streliza di Morea'. Likewise, one Constantine Streliza and his wife are mentioned to have granted the Church some sort of property/land/gift in 1457, right before Peloponessus was overrun by the Turks. Stratiotes with the same surname were also recorded elsewhere. In 1511, Venetian documents record one Michali Strigiza under the command of Domenik Buziqi; other members of the company, to illustrate the ethnic character of these people, were Martin Skura, Leka Sudi, Gin Malakechi, Gin Buzi etc. Bathas was his nick name. Not the real surname. The surname was surely SERBIAN. Pyrro, Donnie will do anything, even sell his own mother, to deny something Serbian.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 21, 2011 5:41:45 GMT -5
^^^ Yup, thats the pattern among albanians (rotl, Patrinos, Dijedon,etc...)
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Post by roflcopterlanding on Jan 21, 2011 12:25:32 GMT -5
would resort to connecting with anything Venetian-Italian-even ALBANIAN, as long as it is not slavic... You're a complete moron if you think the etymology of a cretan village means anything to me. You skipped my important point and went into a rant, as usual.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 21, 2011 22:07:56 GMT -5
Pyrro, there are some (late 18th century) who have called this Bulgarian, a dialect of serbian
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 22, 2011 3:54:24 GMT -5
would resort to connecting with anything Venetian-Italian-even ALBANIAN, as long as it is not slavic... You're a complete moron if you think the etymology of a cretan village means anything to me. You skipped my important point and went into a rant, as usual. What was your important point? From a bunch of 10 villages you tried to create some noise about one which bears some weak chance of being non-slav, right? Your efforts remind me of this guy : tinyurl.com/65ryopo which claims that Vasmer's toponyms of Hleia are not slavic.... I would just buy his book to see how would he prove that MOSTENICA is not slavic ;D ;D ;D What you say about context is correct. However you must admit you dont know *any* slavic language right? So the shortest path for you is to look for smth familiar : latin, german, english, albanian, anything but slavic... By denying the slavic past, we create a hole of 1000 years of history of the hellenic space. simple as that. Just for fun.... You know the Preveli monastery in southern crete, correct? Now try to find *any* word in any language in any planet (except SLAV) which this word means smth.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 22, 2011 3:55:25 GMT -5
Pyrro, there are some (late 18th century) who have called this Bulgarian, a dialect of serbian Especially the western half ;D
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 22, 2011 4:01:34 GMT -5
Pyrro, there are some (late 18th century) who have called this Bulgarian, a dialect of serbian Especially the western half ;D However this sounds as true as the statement that latin evolved from spanish. The fact that some illiterates thought Bg was Sr dialect is indeed more than rediculous, but its understandable having in mind we were under the turks still, nothing was known about our glorious history and how astonishing our contribution to slavdome was (first slavic state, mighties slavic empire on the Bolkans, Bulgarian Kliment developed kirilica, first slavic books written here, first state to adopt slavic as its official language, our language is the first recorded slavic language etc.). As a whole the science at those time was not in fashion and the knowlegde about Bulgarians was scarce. The same was not true for Serbs, tnx to their geographic position. Not a small part of the Serbs lived in Austria or were at its border so of course they were more known in Europe than us. However there is more ground to call serbian bulgarian dialect, if we just look at the written history of serbian. It was old Bulgarian that they first used. It wasnt till 12 century when the serbian features started apearing in place of the classical old Bulgarian.
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