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Post by kijgol on Feb 4, 2011 22:18:08 GMT -5
We have consistently been superior in tennis, which is not a team sport. Point proven. As for facilities, I do not know where you live, but i played division one sports in the US, and I play here in Serbia now. In terms of facilities and investments, Serbia, CG, and Bih are way behind and have been compared to the West and to America. Way behind. Aside from Millenium in Vrsac, Beogradska Arena, the stadium in Podgorica (what is the name krivo? where buducnost plays?) and the new gym they built here in Zrenjanin, all of the other gyms are poor in comparison to anything in the west. And the facilicties and investments have bad for years. Yet we still have the most successful basketball players in Europe. How do you explain that? Furthermore, I do not think we are racially superior to Albanians. But we definately are built for bball. I think the common sentiment expressed by many Albanians here is that Albania lacks a basketball tradition and basketball institutions. An explanation why Serbia fares well with Basketball is that many athletes come from poorer environments because sports are used as a means of escaping poverty. I.e hispanics with baseball, African Americans with basketball/American football, Africans with soccer, etc. Therefore, Serbia along with a strong basketball tradition dating to the Yugo time, some basketball institutions and a relatively lower standard of living compared to Western Europe may be the reason why they fare well. If you look at Albanians they tend to fare well in some Western European countries. Switzerland for example is over represented with Albanian talent on their national team. I don't believe Albanians are more athletic than the Swiss but the institutions in Switzerland along with Albanians using soccer as a means of improving their economic situation are better reasons why they fare well.
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Post by odel on Feb 5, 2011 4:53:08 GMT -5
If basketball actually became popular among Albanians I think that we would have fared much better in that sport, same with any other sport, as has been commented before Albanians don't care for any sports except for football/soccer and some individual fighting sports. Something that is interesting to look at is that a lot of our players and even moreso our best players all live outside Albania or Kosova. This applies also for our boxers and most of our athletes.
An example is Lorik Cana the captain of our national football team, he has lived most of his life in Switzerland and there's a lot of other Albanians in Switzerland just like Lorik. We have talents like Vasil Shkurti, lived in Greece all of his life and he's supposed to be a great talent, thankfully he chooses to play for Albania. Arijan Adem an Albanian is choosing to play for Croatia playing for Croatia's u21 at 19 years old, he's also supposed to be good. There's also a young Albanian in Arsenal FC's football academy. These are some few examples only and there's plenty more but it does prove a point. The best Albanian players play and/or were raised outside of their native homes. Does this mean that only the athletic few migrated out? No, it's just easier to earn sucess outside.
I would like to add that Serbs are not more built for basketball than the taller Netherlanders and Scandinavians, this doesn't stop the Serbs than being more sucessful than these countries (maybe even more sucessful than all these countries altogether) in basketball. Living in a Scandinavian country myself I know that basketball is not a very popular sport there, it's all about football, hockey and handball there.
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Post by ulf on Feb 5, 2011 7:04:39 GMT -5
Scandinavians are no taller then us. In basketball height is not really important, best players weren't centers or power forwards, also often shorter power forwards dominated over taller (clear example Charles Barkley who was just about 194 cm tall and probably top 5 best ever power forwards world has seen)
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gavrilo
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Post by gavrilo on Feb 5, 2011 7:36:35 GMT -5
At the end of the day, the investment arguement hold no weight because Serbia doesn't spend nearly enough $ in comparison to other countries that are not nearly as successful in basketball or other sports.
Some places are just better in sports than others. Take a look at the US. Why does New York consistently produce better basketball players? When other states spend much more on the sport? New Jersey with American football?
There's nothing magical, I do not think Serbs are superior. We are just good at it.
And lastly, basketball is not about height, its about length, and a host of other things. So the Scandanavian arguement doesn't hold much weight either.
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Post by odel on Feb 5, 2011 8:57:04 GMT -5
Scandinavians are no taller then us. In basketball height is not really important, best players weren't centers or power forwards, also often shorter power forwards dominated over taller (clear example Charles Barkley who was just about 194 cm tall and probably top 5 best ever power forwards world has seen) The Scandinavians are taller than the Serbs, show me some statistics that show the contrary. No, height is not the most important factor in basketball, obviously skill is, however, height is a very important factor in this game it gives a physical advantage. Charles Barkley while not being some 2m+ giant would still be considered a pretty tall man anywhere, it's obvious that the better basketball players tend to be on the taller side. That's because the investment that is spent is the mental one, putting sports up as something important, popularity of the game and just holding sports in a high regard. It has been like that since the Yugo times and therefore you guys also have a tradition for this. "I don't think we're superior, we're just better." Of course, I wasn't even arguing for that. Some people here said that one of the reasons for the Serbian sucess in basketball was because of their height, the Scandinavians+the Dutch are taller but haven't had nearly as much sucess in this sport. We do know that basketball is not a popular sport over there and therefore there won't be much sucess. So yes, the Scandinavian arguement does hold very much weight if you don't twist it. Also if it's about length, why is it not about height? Are you saying that for example the length of the arms are more important or? And isn't it logical to think that a taller person will also have longer arms, legs and such?
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gavrilo
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Post by gavrilo on Feb 5, 2011 9:11:44 GMT -5
My point is this. i gurantee you that the agregate salaries of all of the Dutch players in their professional league is close to or even exceeding the serbian salaries. Yet Holland is a non factor, and we are consistently a top 4 country, and we have by far the most pros after the Americans.
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Post by gavrilo on Feb 5, 2011 9:13:24 GMT -5
Not neccesarily. Look at Rajon Rondo of the Boston Celtics. He is about 6'2, yet his wings span is close to 6'8. He guards other point guards who do not have that advantage. Mix his length with his talent, and you have an all nba defender who can guard guards and bigs.
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Post by mystery on Feb 5, 2011 9:21:32 GMT -5
Not neccesarily. Look at Rajon Rondo of the Boston Celtics. He is about 6'2, yet his wings span is close to 6'8. He guards other point guards who do not have that advantage. Mix his length with his talent, and you have an all nba defender who can guard guards and bigs. But he can't shoot a ball in a lake ;D
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gavrilo
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Post by gavrilo on Feb 5, 2011 9:52:01 GMT -5
haha yes good point he definately couldnt hit the ocean from the pier so to speak
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Post by ulf on Feb 5, 2011 10:01:36 GMT -5
Scandinavians are no taller then us. In basketball height is not really important, best players weren't centers or power forwards, also often shorter power forwards dominated over taller (clear example Charles Barkley who was just about 194 cm tall and probably top 5 best ever power forwards world has seen) The Scandinavians are taller than the Serbs, show me some statistics that show the contrary. No, height is not the most important factor in basketball, obviously skill is, however, height is a very important factor in this game it gives a physical advantage. Charles Barkley while not being some 2m+ giant would still be considered a pretty tall man anywhere, it's obvious that the better basketball players tend to be on the taller side. zomg, I though we are talking about basketball players and their heights not regular people. Had you ever trained pro basketball you'd be probably reaching at worst case 185 cm. Power forwards are usually 205+ cm, which means that Barkley with 10 cm minus dominated the floor which means he was quite shorter. And 193-194 cm ain't that tall(its tall but not that much), half or my male relatives are about that height(some even larger) and me myself is 192 cm, and none of us ever trained anything. Also many younger Serbian people I know are about 190 cm. Anyway attributes such as strength, speed, agility and skills are more important then the height, yet height is also factor in order to play basketball, but not in the pro game as they all got certain height and other abilities that I already mention which are trademark of this game.
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Post by gavrilo on Feb 5, 2011 10:15:33 GMT -5
in general we are pretty damn tall. Except for me =D ehhh what the hell heights overrated =P
It def plays a role in sports, just not as much as most would think. JMO
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Post by odel on Feb 5, 2011 11:16:01 GMT -5
Lol, well some people said that the reason for Serbia's sucess in basketball was because of the Serbs tallness, something I countered with the fact that the tallest nations in the world are hardly represented. 190+ might not be giant but it's still pretty tall and anyone at 190+ is considered tall in any country or place.
I agree, a 2.10 m man who's never played basketball wouldn't have won against a 1.78 m man who's played basketball all his life for example.
I've always thought that the height of Serbs and Yugo's was exaggerated by the Serbs and Yugo's themselves, according to statistics the average height in Serbia is 179.3 cms it's still a tallish average (one man being 179 cms is considered medium but 179 cms in an average population can be considered a tallish height). This is of course in Serbia, Montenegrins and Bosnians are most likely taller, Kosova Serbs much smaller. Also the Croats for example have a 176 cm average height, not very tall. Which again proves my point, the average height of a population and how sucessful it's country is in basketball doesn't correlate.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 5, 2011 14:06:06 GMT -5
Some things albs are getting wrong here:
Basketball is popular in every european state, Scandinavians and albs Arent represented here due to a series of reasons most of all because they aren't good at it.
And Donnie the Slav-Mongrel, this has nothing to do with racial surperiority, as far as I'm concerned surperiority in that sense doesn't exist. Anglo Americans have no rhythm because their culture never fostered it for them, in the same sense Albanians aren't good at hand-eye coordination or jumping because it was never given importance in their society.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Feb 5, 2011 17:41:29 GMT -5
The Dinaric alps are the tallest region in the world from which can be safely deducted that Montengro is the tallest country in the world. The Dutch and Scandinavians are comparable in height to Dinarics but they have a different body type. Dinarics are mesomorph which is most often associated with athleticism and muscularity whilst Dutch & Nordics are more leptomorphic. In other words Dinarics have better bodies that are more suited to basketball. And of course basketball has a lot to do with height I can't believe people are claiming that it doesn't. If you are going to search for a game that represents the highest level of athleticism then basketball is it. I've been to Holland and Dutch height is very noticeable but their bodies do not look athletic that's for sure. You guys know your selves when you go to the Balkans peoples stature and bodies are amazing. Compare a group of Balkan girls walking down the street to what you have where you are and you know the bodies always make them look good even if their heads don't. Albanians should be happy that their neighbors have represented the region as world and European champions a number of times and use it as inspiration if they think it's only a difference in circumstances.
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Post by donnie on Feb 5, 2011 17:55:38 GMT -5
I don't have any figures from Montenegro, but according to the study below from 2008, the Montenegrin newcomers in Vojvodina were 176.33cm tall, which according to the study, is roughly equal with the native Vojvodjani (Serb natives of Backa being 175.8 and Serb natives of Banat being 176.5): www.doiserbia.nb.rs/img/doi/0352-4906/2008/0352-49060814027P.pdfThe tallest were the newcomers from Herzegovina and Bosnia, while the shortest were the Hungarians. What one might conclude from that study is that the numbers aren't particularly spectacular (though the stature of 180.74 for Herzegovinians is impressive) and they don't give the impression that this populace is beyond a doubt the tallest of the whole world .. PS I find another study as well, this one: www.antropoloskodrustvosrbije.com/PDF/048_Tatjana_Pavlica.pdfInterestingly, one sees an acceleration of height. In 1963, Zivojin Gavrilovic found that the average height of Vojvodina was 169.17cm .. and in 1976, Bozic found an average of 170.95cm for the population of Vojvodina. Zivojin Gavrilovic also measured some 201 Albanians between the ages of 17-80 in Decani, and found a mean of 172cm, which is interesting considering the fact that Kosova was the poorest province in YU ,, while Vojvodina among the richest in YU. The results Gavrilovic got from the Herzegovinians and Bosnian Serbs of the same period was 175cm and 173cm.
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Post by drinus123 on Feb 5, 2011 18:11:38 GMT -5
serbs will come down to earth, sooner or later donnie. right now they are viewing the world through blurry lenses.
when it hits them; it's gonna hurt.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 5, 2011 19:09:15 GMT -5
Arsenije, height is NOT that important in basketball. I regularly play, I know short dudes who will demolish 7-foot guys. In fact some of the best ball players are not even that tall. Allen Iverson 5 foot 11, Steve Nash 6' 3''. Michael Jordan inarguably the best player to have ever lived was only 6' 6'', your average Swede or Danish person is that tall.
And drinus what is it opposite day? Shiptars are the most brainwashed people on earth after the FYROMians.
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gavrilo
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Post by gavrilo on Feb 5, 2011 19:30:00 GMT -5
Donnie all respet to that study but my personal experience is that the Montes and Bosnians are much taller than other Serbs. Montes are amusing bc they are either really tall or really short.
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Post by kijgol on Feb 5, 2011 20:10:15 GMT -5
Height is relative to the position. The average size in the NBA are around:
PG= 6'2" SG= 6'5" SF= 6'8" PF= 6'10" C = 6'11"
These are averages on top of my head.
@ Arsenije
Most of the Serbs in the NBA aren't known for their athleticism. I believe Darko Milicic had some nice pre draft workouts, but most of the Serbs in the NBA are known for their skills. Pedrag Stoyokovic was an average athlete but had phenomenal outside shot. Vlade Divac was relatively a good athlete I believe but he was known for his skills including passing,outside shooting and flopping lol (Divac was a bit before my time.)
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Post by terroreign on Feb 5, 2011 20:51:19 GMT -5
kijgol it's pretty flexible, thus 5' 11'' Iverson plays Shooting guard, and 6' 2'' Steve Nash Point Guard, or 6' 5'' Charles Barkley power foward.
Thus, like I said, height really don't matter.
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