ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 10, 2011 8:35:38 GMT -5
The Bulgarian Cultural Club in Skopje, an NGO, has started a campaign encouraging Macedonians with Bulgarian self-consciousness to declare themselves as Bulgarians during Macedonia's current census. The Bulgarian Cultural Club in Skopje has released a video and poster "whose aim is to spread the truth about the ethnic character of the population of Macedonia", as cited by the press service of the Bulgarian nationalist party VMRO. The motto of the video, which features major Bulgarian historical figures from Macedonia such as St. Kliment Ohridski (author of the Cyrillic alphabet), medieval Bulgarian Tsar Samuil, Farther Paisiy Hilendarski (author of Bulgaria's first history), revolutionary Gotse Delchev, among others, as well as Bulgaria's Apostle of Freedom Vasil Levski, is "Ancestors' Memory Calling". The campaign further poses the question, "All of them were Bulgarians. What about you?" The video and poster also demonstrates how those Macedonians with Bulgarian self-consciousness can declare their Bulgarian self-determination and Bulgarian as their native language. The Chair of the Bulgarian Cultural Club in Skopje Lazar Mladenov has issued a call for spreading the video and posters online in order to reach as many Macedonians as possible, the VMRO party says. About 40 000 Macedonians have acquired Bulgarian passports since 2002 on the grounds of "Bulgarian origin." For the purposes of naturalization, Bulgaria's government considers the Macedonians of Slavic origin to be entitled to claim ethnic Bulgarian origin for historical regions. In recent years, Bulgarian historians and nationalist circles have been speaking out against the "falsification" of Bulgarian history used to "create" a Macedonian nation by the authorities of the former Yugoslavia in order to dissociate the population of what is today the Republic of Macedonia with Bulgaria. There has been an increasing number of reports about the harrassment by Macedonia's authorities of Macedonians declaring themselves to be Bulgarians. Notable cases in the past two years include the fate of young mother Spaska Mitrova from Gevgelija and the family of Zdravko Zdraveski from Prilep. www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=132807
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Oct 10, 2011 17:48:53 GMT -5
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 11, 2011 8:44:10 GMT -5
The day you look forward came in 2011 and.................................................................................................... the people that did identify as Macedonians in Bulgaria were ................................................................. the groundbreaking number of about 1000 people!!!! Most were newcomers from Macedonia anyways. The reminding people were the relatives of the organizers of OMO, which are paid by Skopie.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Oct 11, 2011 17:17:15 GMT -5
The day you look forward came in 2011 and.................................................................................................... the people that did identify as Macedonians in Bulgaria were ................................................................. the groundbreaking number of about 1000 people!!!! Most were newcomers from Macedonia anyways. The reminding people were the relatives of the organizers of OMO, which are paid by Skopie. Actually, the official number was 1,654. The official number of Bulgarians in Macedonia in the last census was 1,417. Most of these people held Bulgarian passports.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 12, 2011 0:13:14 GMT -5
Yes, but were born and raised in Macedonia. I dont think there is 1 Bulgarian that moved to Macedonia. While I personally know alot of Macedonians that came to Bulgaria. Although most of them did read their real history and are now Bulgarians as Samuel. Goze and all others.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Oct 12, 2011 8:21:33 GMT -5
Don't be silly Chentovist. Have you missed the point, yet again? The purpose of this initiative is to encourage those who still, even today, feel Bulgarian in R. Macedonia to identify as such.
As the article mentions, in the last 10 years or so some 40,000 Macedonians have been granted Bulgarian passports. There have been more that applied, but never got it 'cuz they couldn't prove their Bulgarian origin. But those 40,000 have provided proof of the Bulgarian origin of their families.
The problem is that Macedonia's official policy is very anti Bulgarian. Signs of Bulgarianess are suppressed, and those who identify as such are tormented by some BS government tactics.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Oct 12, 2011 17:50:37 GMT -5
Don't be silly Chentovist. Have you missed the point, yet again? The purpose of this initiative is to encourage those who still, even today, feel Bulgarian in R. Macedonia to identify as such. As the article mentions, in the last 10 years or so some 40,000 Macedonians have been granted Bulgarian passports. There have been more that applied, but never got it 'cuz they couldn't prove their Bulgarian origin. But those 40,000 have provided proof of the Bulgarian origin of their families. The problem is that Macedonia's official policy is very anti Bulgarian. Signs of Bulgarianess are suppressed, and those who identify as such are tormented by some BS government tactics. The Bulgarian government and nationalist organisations in Bulgaria suppress Macedonism in Bulgaria and have done so for decades. The same treatment should be accorded to the Bugaromani in Macedonia...all 1,400 of them.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 13, 2011 0:07:04 GMT -5
I think the Bulgaromani in Macedonia are much more. Bulgaromani=ethnic Macedonians, which know the real history of Macedonia and understand that the Macedonians used to identify as Bulgarians 50 years ago. 1400 are the Bulgarians which simply identify as Bulgarians though everything Bulgarian now in Macedonia is supressed.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Oct 13, 2011 0:13:16 GMT -5
bugaromani, srbomani, grkomani...isto gjubre
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Oct 13, 2011 8:21:00 GMT -5
"Macedonism" is an artificial politically inspired creation. And all those who support it and all its "historians" and "scholars" are complete jokes who have no credibility outside of R. Macedonia.
And then you have those other jokers who pose as something else, like Andrew Rossos, yet when you read through their work any person with the slightest of knowledge on the matter can easily poke holes through their paper thin and misconstrued conclusions.
Like I said, you're a disgrace to your dead relatives' memory.
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Oct 13, 2011 17:45:50 GMT -5
"Macedonism" is an artificial politically inspired creation. And all those who support it and all its "historians" and "scholars" are complete jokes who have no credibility outside of R. Macedonia. And then you have those other jokers who pose as something else, like Andrew Rossos, yet when you read through their work any person with the slightest of knowledge on the matter can easily poke holes through their paper thin and misconstrued conclusions. Like I said, you're a disgrace to your dead relatives' memory. ivo, i have not made any comments about your relatives. i'd appreciate if you left mine out of the argument...especially since you never met them.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Oct 14, 2011 8:35:32 GMT -5
Yes, you're right.. maybe I'm out of place commenting on them in such a way as I don't know them and simply think of them as true Macedonian patriots, but all those Macedonian patriots from way back when had a view point that was very different from yours.
If your relatives were among those who hit the "Chentovist" wave, then by all means, you'd probably make them very proud.
But if they maintained the true essence of what the IMRO was all about and what it stood for, then they're probably turning in their graves..
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Oct 14, 2011 9:21:35 GMT -5
Chento, I think you know what Ivo meant: that your ideals and views have nothing to do with the ideals and the views of the Bulgarian Macedonians of IMRO (heroes which are celebrated in Macedonia today as ethnic Macedonians, which they never were in the first place).
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Post by terroreign on Oct 16, 2011 0:07:42 GMT -5
chento knows this, but i'm quite impressed with his rebuttals. he should go into the field of politics!
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Sokol
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Post by Sokol on Oct 16, 2011 18:28:58 GMT -5
Ivo
the chentovist 'wave' was hit by the vast majority of Macedonians in WWII, as they joined the partizans en masse. The brutality of the Bulgar occupation was the last straw...we were brutalised by the Serb occupation, and then again by Bulgar occupation...'Chentovism' was the way to go, and we haven't looked back. Whilst VMRO's ideals were an independent Macedonia, some in the movement saw it is a transitionary phase until MK's incorporation into Bulgaria, whilst others saw a united and independent Macedonia as a permanent state - even Ivan Mihailov did (read his Macedonia: Switzerland of the Balkans). In either case, VMRO has served the interests in both Macedonian and Bulgarian nationalists, which explains their continued popularity today in both Macedonia and Bulgaria.
Jas ne komentiram za licnosti megju tvojeto semejstvo, ako ti praijsh isto za mene. Mislam taka naj dobro kje bide i kje mozhime da si prajme ubavi muoabeti za vmro i komitite...
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Oct 17, 2011 10:11:27 GMT -5
The ideals of IMRO for an independent Macedonia never meant secession from the Bulgarian ethnic identity.. that's something instilled in you by constant anti-Bulgarian policies, initially by Serbia, followed by Yugoslavia.
The idea of a separate Macedonian ethnicity was inspired by early Serbian politics, and solidified by Yugoslav politics for the sake of ensuring that Bulgaria would remain weak as San Stefano Bulgaria would have been the sole regional power.
Anyway, times have changed. Things are different today, but the Bulgar mentality remains. There're always going to be those of us who persistently defend the truth, simply because we're just in doing so. At that point it will all come down to endurance, and it seems the Bulgar can endure a lot.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Oct 22, 2011 6:35:04 GMT -5
As if Belgium is France, or Holland or Germany? Why don't leave Macedonia and its people live in peace? Bulgaria offers citizenship to ppl in a foreign country? Greece keeps babbling bulls, doesn't have right to more than ONE name and no right to claim territories or other names and lands. Why can't we leave the ppl alone, recognise their very existence, once and for all. Macedonia is not part of Bulgaria, nor Greece or Serbia. It is Republic of Macedonia - not a Balkan Waterloo!
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