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Post by derk on Oct 16, 2011 16:40:18 GMT -5
I came across a thread where Donnie claims that one of the tribes that helped Ali Pasha Tepelena burn Souli was named Djhako. Up until now, everything is ok until he says that it is in fact "Diakos". Plus, he also wrote about Andruco (Androutsos). I don't know what to say, is this correct? And, why would two hellenic tribes join Ali Pasha? I only wish that this whole name thing is made up.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Oct 16, 2011 16:49:59 GMT -5
Wasn't he apart of the young Turks with Jemal Pasha?
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Post by derk on Oct 16, 2011 16:52:51 GMT -5
nope
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Post by missanthropology58 on Oct 16, 2011 17:02:46 GMT -5
Impact on modern Greek Enlightenment
Although Ali Pasha's native language was Albanian he used Greek for all his courtly dealings[17] since the population of the region he controlled was predominantly Greek speaking.[18] As a consequence, a part of the local Greek population showed sympathy towards his rule.[17] This also activated new educational opportunities, with businessmen of the Greek diaspora, subsidizing a number of new educational purposes. As historian Douglas Dakin notes:[18]
[Ali's] colourful career belongs to Greek as well as to Turkish history. His court was Greek and had been the centre of a Greek renaissance.
That might be it
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Post by derk on Oct 16, 2011 17:10:42 GMT -5
I am more interested in the reasoning behind the name Dhjako and Andruco tbh.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Oct 16, 2011 17:14:14 GMT -5
They're Albanian names
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Post by derk on Oct 16, 2011 17:23:13 GMT -5
but why?
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Post by missanthropology58 on Oct 16, 2011 17:27:53 GMT -5
Because they say they're descended from the Arvanites and they settled in Greece and Crete
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Post by duk on Oct 17, 2011 4:13:27 GMT -5
I came across a thread where Donnie claims that one of the tribes that helped Ali Pasha Tepelena burn Souli was named Djhako. Up until now, everything is ok until he says that it is in fact "Diakos". Plus, he also wrote about Andruco (Androutsos). I don't know what to say, is this correct? And, why would two hellenic tribes join Ali Pasha? I only wish that this whole name thing is made up. Why wouldn't they? If it was in their interest to do so they would do it, and they did even though they were Greek (which is a fact of little importance). Why would for example Ali Pashë Tepelena fight against Souli in the first place if we use this logic? The Souli were Albanians but their interests and Ali Pasha's were conflicting. The reason these tribes went against the Suliotes is probably due to the Suliotes taking control and taxing other tribes and pillaging their villages and such. The Suliotes survived mainly by taking from others; mostly through military threat.
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Post by derk on Oct 17, 2011 5:32:39 GMT -5
odel, but what I don't understand is that why were Androutsos and Diakos are referred to as Andrucco and Dhjako respectively. Botsaris is referred to as Boçari by albanians. were they as albanian origin? I know Diakos said: "I was born a Greek, I shall die a Greek" before being killed by Vrioni.
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Post by duk on Oct 17, 2011 6:36:50 GMT -5
odel, but what I don't understand is that why were Androutsos and Diakos are referred to as Andrucco and Dhjako respectively. Botsaris is referred to as Boçari by albanians. were they as albanian origin? I know Diakos said: "I was born a Greek, I shall die a Greek" before being killed by Vrioni. How it's written isn't very important as you can Greekify/Albanify names easily, it doesn't mean anything. I don't know about Androutsos and Diakos (I doubt they were Albanian), Botsaris and the Souliotes were Albanian however. The clan name Souliote stems from the Albanian word 'suli' which means mountain summit. The problem is that the Souliotes were Greek Orthodox, therefore they were referred to as being Greek even though they were Albanian while Muslim Albanians were referred to as Turks and that they became bilingual as many others in Epirus.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Oct 17, 2011 6:47:22 GMT -5
Yes, just like when the Greeks converted to Islam they were called Turks lol ^
That's all a Turk is
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Post by derk on Oct 17, 2011 9:08:50 GMT -5
I had always assumed souli stemmed from selloi, an ancient hellenic tribe.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Oct 17, 2011 9:54:15 GMT -5
you have to understand that being Greek back then also meant Orthodox religion ....so do not emphasize on the word "Greek" as just one meaning and another thing you have to understand is that Ali was a gangster at first ....all them old well known Arvaniti people were in his gangs of road thieves ....they paid dues to Ali Pasha and wer also old friends .... the turks couldnt control Ali so they figured to make him a Pasha ..(a Sherif ) and the only Christians that he allowed to carry weapons were ARVANITIS ....these were the same Arvanitis that were heroes and made Greece ...not these eastern newcomers Ali was harsh to Albanians as well as Greeks .-.the rule of power- watch the video on this thread ...its produced by the National Bank of Greece illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=shqiperiaalbania&action=display&thread=34107
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Post by derk on Oct 17, 2011 10:42:07 GMT -5
Interesting rex but I don't get something. If these figures of our revolution; canaris, kolokotronis, botsaris, karaiskakis, bouboulina, diakos, arndroutsos, miaoulis, kountouriotis and tzavelas are albanians as most albanians claim all or most of them, why did they not form an arvanite state? I mean form what I understand, if they were albanians, they would have formed an albanian state not a greek one. Plus, why didn't the rest of the orthodox albanians join the revolution?
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Oct 17, 2011 11:10:03 GMT -5
well they were .....they were fighting to be turkish free ...not to create a Greece ....that eventually came later
then others saw that Arvanitis started and jumped on .....
especially greeks from the diaspora ....greeks from the diaspora were alarmed that Arvanaitis were heading up a struggle and moved fast to blend in then later on gained assistance from Russia, United Kingdom and France against the turks
and at all times keep in mind that Greek = Christian Orthodox
like the suli that wanted autonomy ....as did Ali Pasha ....
also look at the timing of the death of Ali pasha by the turks and the timing of the revolution start ...you can really say that Ali Pasha started it in essence .....but no Greek can comprehend that
*another little tidbit is that the heroes were heroes for short time ...later most were imprisoned ,murdered,banned or just simply forgotten ,besides the small communities that use them in parades for capture of tourism .....
*and also we had vlachs mixes as well that were liberators
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Post by missanthropology58 on Oct 17, 2011 14:11:41 GMT -5
The British were there during ww1 and the French ww2 and the end of it it was because of the French the Ottoman Empire because they came to split up the Levant and Asia Minor, also many Levantine Christians and especially Lebanese Christians were immigrating there and they wanted to stop that.
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Post by missanthropology58 on Oct 17, 2011 14:12:51 GMT -5
The Ottoman Empire ended because of the French ^
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Post by Kastorianos on Oct 20, 2011 17:13:17 GMT -5
There were some fighters who were of arvanite origin (Botsaris, Bouboulina, Tsavellas) but surely not all and surely not most of them (Kolokotronis, Diakos, Karaiskakis, Androutsos were not of arvanite stock).
Dont listen to rex...he is clueless...
All those people felt Greek and fought for an independent Greek state (and not for "some" free state thats simply not right). All of them belonged to the Filiki Etaireia whose clear aim was to form a free Greek national state).
The arvanitophone Greeks did feel Greek, they didnt feel "albanian" or sth...the albanian nation and national consciousness was formed much later...being Greek orthodox meant simply being Greek. the Arvanites of Peloponnese had with the grecophone people much more in common than with the muslims of todays albania or Epirus...
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Oct 20, 2011 17:28:40 GMT -5
what ....just religion ...ahahahaha what about blood ,language,culture
Derk ..also keep in mind that some were also Albano-Vlachos
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