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Post by missanthropology58 on Jan 10, 2012 16:47:40 GMT -5
Happy new 2012 btw to all! Happy new year.
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 11, 2012 4:46:10 GMT -5
Same to you missy, i hope this year you find a nice hubby and settle down ! ( i mean it)
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Post by Shqipni13 on Jan 12, 2012 2:31:36 GMT -5
^ROFLLLLL you can't turn a hoe into a housewife. I'm sure she can turn some tricks though.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 12, 2012 5:33:41 GMT -5
"For Albania was not fashioned, Made by God for the Circassians, Nor for darkskinned Turks and Moors, But for mountain hawks, those heroes Whom the world calls the Albanians, That they keep it for their children For as long as life continues.
- Gjergj Fishta 1908"
LMAO
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Post by Shqipni13 on Jan 12, 2012 6:43:25 GMT -5
^Go wash some serbian shit stained panties small fry.
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Post by fishcake on Jan 12, 2012 11:02:53 GMT -5
Happy new 2012 btw to all! better late then never LOL Or in your case probably never LOL
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 13, 2012 3:13:04 GMT -5
^Go wash some serbian s**t stained panties small fry. lol!!!! i leave that to their Slaves - the INFERIOR ALBS.... HA HA HA PS Dude @190cm you must be hired as a power center in the albo basketball team... LMAO
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ivo
Amicus
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Post by ivo on Jan 17, 2012 20:28:24 GMT -5
What the hell's up with this nostalgia for the ancients!?
We Bulgarians ain't Thracians! We have our own history and are proud of it! The Thracians are merely one element that may have possibly played a role in our ethnogenesis.
Studies such as these stray far from reality when they identify modern Greeks as some sort of 'marker' for what the ancients were.. when looking into such studies with a false basis (ie. that modern Greeks = ancient Greeks), these 'anthropologists' are bound to make errors in judgement.
Modern Greeks are one of the most mixed peoples in Europe, as are Bulgarians. But as I've mentioned before, all great Empires in Europe have been multi-ethnic.
Some of the 'blood' of these ancient peoples may be present in the populations inhabiting the Balkans and surrounding regions today, however, there is no science behind it.. all is based on wishful thinking and a political desire to declare "We were on this continent first!!!".
Today.. all these claims toward the ancients are un-natural, and the idea of such ancient ethnic connections has been implanted into peoples' minds by various political regimes.
There are no Thracians today. There are no ancient Greeks today. There are no Ancient Macedonians today. There are no Dacians today.
The Greeks seem to have the world fooled that they are indeed 'ancient Greeks', but in reality that's only the case because they've had the most money to promote this supposed ethnic identity over the past 100-150 years.
Some Bulgarians claim Thracian origin (thankfully they're few), but they are confused about their own history. These claims in Bulgaria only came about when certain individuals saw the progress that was being made by the Greeks, in combination with the attempted division of the Bulgarian identity into three.. ie. a Macedonian identity, a Moesian identity, and a Thracian identity; all this was promoted by the communists and supported by Stalin and Tito.
With regards to Macedonia, as mentioned above, it ain't a secrete that the basis of the modern Macedonian ethnic identity was solely a political initiative. The vast majority of the Slavic speaking population of Macedonia identified as ethnic Bulgarians until recently.
With regards to Romania.. ain't much to say here. Their exact origins are uncertain, and the theories that exist are all flimsy. The truth is, that much like Greeks and Bulgarians, modern day Romanians are fairly mixed. After the unification of the "Romanian" principalities, their government had to devise a plan for some firm historic identity.. hence the fairy tale belief that they are a mix of Romans and Dacians. They phrase it as if a "Roman" was in-itself an sole ethnic group, when in fact a "Roman" could have been any person of any ethnicity.
The average person doesn't ask questions, and so is inclined to believe absolutely everything they've been taught in school.
It was until recently that Bulgarians were marked as eternal enemies in Serbian text books, and unfortunately, this is still the case in modern R. Macedonia textbooks.
Lastly, I've said this before, but out of all the claims to the ancients the Albanian one seems to be most credible.
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Hellenas
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Father of Gods and of men.
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 17, 2012 21:47:01 GMT -5
Modern Greeks are one of the most mixed peoples in Europe, as are Bulgarians. But as I've mentioned before, all great Empires in Europe have been multi-ethnic. Greeks are Greeks(=descendants of the ancient Greeks), at least that is what the Anthropological and Genetical Scientific world supports. They just have some linguistic minorities among them, such as Arvanitophones, Vlahophones, Slavophones. These minorities composed by very few peope and most of Greeks do not descend from them but on the contrary, these linguistic minorities have mixed with Greeks and they almost assimilated, meaning they became Greeks as well. Wrong, Balkanians are mostly descendants of the ancient Balkanians and then by Slavs, Mongols or other invaders. That's what the Scientific world supports, not some brainwashed Bulgarian pan-slavicist Nationalists. Of course there are, as there are illiterate people(conserning Anthropology/Genetics). It's not the "Greeks who fooled", it's the whole Scientific world as well.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 18, 2012 0:14:25 GMT -5
Add the term 'linguistic' before the term 'descendants' in the "descendants of the ancient Greeks" part and we'd be talkin'.
The "ancient Balkanians" you speak of endured assimilation, amalgamation, forced population shifts, voluntary population re-settlements, and a whole lot more during the times of the Roman Empire. The same thing happened during the time of Byzantium, and even still during the time of the First Bulgarian Empire. And in the midst of it all, the Balkan region endured centuries of the so called "barbarian invasions".. and these "barbarians", aside from plunder, engaged in murder and rape. In fact, prior to the foundation of the First Bulgarian Empire; the Bulgars, along with Avar and Slavic tribes ravaged the territories of modern day Greece as far south as the Peloponnesus. The results of that alone were so devastating that contemporary authors recorded on the depopulation of the region; so much so, that some records hint on Athens being a 'Slavic city'. And let us not forget that some 50% of modern Greeks were imported from Anatolia no more than 100-150 years ago.
So if were to assume that "Balkanians are mostly descendants of the ancient Balkanians", we'd need to omit some 2000 years of history.. which, coincidentally, is what your government has done and is still doing.
Pan-Slavism is BS brought on by the world domination dreams of Russia, and later solidified by Stalin's communist propaganda. Bulgarians today are simply Bulgarians. Our modern ethnic group has resulted via the amalgamation of a variety of different ethnic groups (mainly old Bulgars, Slavic tribes, and possibly some remnants of Slavicised Thracians). The formation of your ethnic group has undergone much the same processes, and it seems we share many ethnic elements.. but they're not necessarily Thracians or ancient Greeks.
Much like there are politicians who care little for the truth, choosing the lucrative ways of lies and deceit.
I've read that some time ago, in the early to mid days of last century, the Greek government "donated" a ton of encyclopaedias and books to American Universities with their version of historic events pertaining to Greece.
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Post by bowandarrow on Jan 18, 2012 15:10:08 GMT -5
"For Albania was not fashioned, Made by God for the Circassians, Nor for darkskinned Turks and Moors, But for mountain hawks, those heroes Whom the world calls the Albanians, That they keep it for their children For as long as life continues.
- Gjergj Fishta 1908"
Lol I know that's what they are Moor N**g**rs and dark skinned turds
LMAO
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Hellenas
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Father of Gods and of men.
Posts: 578
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 18, 2012 23:42:39 GMT -5
Add the term 'linguistic' before the term 'descendants' in the "descendants of the ancient Greeks" part and we'd be talkin'. No, you talk nonsense. The Greeks acoording to Anthropology and Genetics are descendants of the Ancient Greeks, either Bulgarian Nationalists like it or not. 1. Greeks according to racial Anthropology and Genetics are not "Slavs". The "Slav" invaders in Greece were very few and were mostly Slavicized Balkanians, not racially "Slavs" as well. Greeks are not Slavs: dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/fallmerayer/2. The Greeks from Asia Minor were descendants of ancient Greek Ionians, at least most of them. Only illiterate people and propagandists could say that they were non-Greek "Turks". They spoke Helllenic, they keeped the Hellenic traditions and customs, the orthodox religion as well as the blood of the ancient Hellenes of Asia Minor. Greeks genetically close to Italians: hellas2010.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=raceandanthropology&action=display&thread=21Nonsense, most of Balkanians racially are descendants of the Ancient Balkanians. Bulgarians have much Thracian blood. You seem to stick only in bulgarian version of history while both Anthropology and Genetics are against you. Show some attention to the aforementioned Sciences than just sticking in Slavo-Bulgarian propaganda.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 19, 2012 0:47:22 GMT -5
No no, no sir, it is you who is rather flirtatious with the concept of 'nonsense'.
Yeee braaah. The National Academy of Science concluded that the DNA of humans and chimps has a similarity of 98%. In truth, those studies were inaccurate.. as it turns out, the DNA of humans and chimps has a similarity of only 95%.
Yup, just gotta close our eyes and omit that chunk of 2000 years of history and your statement would be absolutely correct.
Bulgarians supposedly have some Thracian blood. I believe the estimates are at about 20-30%, however, those estimates pertain to 'Slavicized Thracians'.. so who knows. Thing is though, it doesn't matter. The Thracians, like the ancient Greeks and the ancient Macedonians, were identities long lost centuries ago only to be artificially resurrected by early 20th century politics.
You don't know me; it would be to your advantage not to jump to conclusions as thus far you've been wrong on most accounts.
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Post by bowandarrow on Jan 19, 2012 14:58:37 GMT -5
Thracians are both Greek and Bulgarians aren't Bulgarians predominantly Pontid..
Greeks have a combination of Near Eastern and Eastern European genes J2 and E3b they are Mediterraneans.
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Hellenas
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Father of Gods and of men.
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 19, 2012 19:14:32 GMT -5
No no, no sir, it is you who is rather flirtatious with the concept of 'nonsense'.. You are completely anti-Scientific=you talk nonsense. Yes, and according to you humans are chimps, lol. Greeks of Thrace, Macedonia always called their selves as Thracians, Macedonians etc. They keeped their ancient traditions & customes, their Hellenic language and even their religion(as the ancient Greek religious habits have pass to the Orthodox religion) and of course their blood. That's what you are, not me=wrong and non-scientific.
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Hellenas
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Father of Gods and of men.
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 19, 2012 19:40:27 GMT -5
Thracians are both Greek and Bulgarians aren't Bulgarians predominantly Pontid. According to Carleton S. Coon(American anthropologist), both Greek Mediterraneans and Bulgarian Mediterraneans are Atlanto-Meds and related to each other. For Bunak(Russian Anthropologist) both Greek Meds and Bulgarian Meds are Pontics and related to each other. For Bertil Lundman(Swede Anthropologist) both Greek Mediterraneans and Bulgarian Mediterraneans are East-Meds and related to each other. And for Aris Poulianos(Greek Anthropologist/Paleoanthropologist), both Greeks and most of Bulgarians are Aegean Meds and once again related to each other. Wrong, Greeks are Europeans(Europeanized). The J2 to the Greeks is not J2 but J2f1(Aegean) and J2e(which is frequent in Greece and Albania). The E3B is not E3B to the Greeks but exclusively E3b1a(also known as E-M78 or as E-M78á, which has a maximum frequency in Greece and southern Balkans). Greeks are not Near Easterns but European Mediterraneans and Alpines. dienekes.awardspace.com/articles/greeknry/indexgr.htmlTo say that Greeks are J2 Middle Eastern and E3b Eastern African is completely wrong, is like saying that all Europeans are still Africans, as all of them came from Africa as well. J2 and E3b to the Greeks are Europeanized Haplogroups and considered by all Geneticists as European.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 19, 2012 20:59:48 GMT -5
Is this a compliment?
No sir, not according to me.. according to science.
Hmm that's odd, 'cuz I've read that the forefathers of today's Greeks referred to themselves as 'Romaeoi' until not too long ago.
I ask again.. is that a compliment?
Lol. This guy's a joker.
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Post by bowandarrow on Jan 20, 2012 11:21:34 GMT -5
According to Carleton S. Coon(American anthropologist), both Greek Mediterraneans and Bulgarian Mediterraneans are Atlanto-Meds and related to each other. For Bunak(Russian Anthropologist) both Greek Meds and Bulgarian Meds are Pontics and related to each other. For Bertil Lundman(Swede Anthropologist) both Greek Mediterraneans and Bulgarian Mediterraneans are East-Meds and related to each other. And for Aris Poulianos(Greek Anthropologist/Paleoanthropologist), both Greeks and most of Bulgarians are Aegean Meds and once again related to each other. Yes, but it's got nothing to do with the fact that they're Atlantos it's got to do with the fact that they're Meds. Alpines are Meds also. Wrong, Greeks are Europeans(Europeanized). The J2 to the Greeks is not J2 but J2f1(Aegean) and J2e(which is frequent in Greece and Albania). The E3B is not E3B to the Greeks but exclusively E3b1a(also known as E-M78 or as E-M78á, which has a maximum frequency in Greece and southern Balkans). Greeks are not Near Easterns but European Mediterraneans and Alpines. J2 is a Near Eastern gene and it's found in Southern Italy Bulgaria and Sicily Albania and Crete also those are the exact places Phoenicians colonized J2a ancestry It's got to do with the Phoenicians more than anything/one elese. Human beings evolved out of Asia mostly West and Central so no one's disputing the fact Greeks aren't European and that they are Middle Eastern. No one in Europe has a Middle Eastern J1a gene because no Europeans evolved out of the direct Middle East aka Saudi Arabia, or Yemen that would be pushing it somewhat. Northern Europeans were the last to evolved out of Asia, and Southern Europeans were the first thus, Southern Europeans are Meds. www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml#J2J2 originated in northern Mesopotamia, and spread westward to Anatolia and southern Europe, and eastward to Persia and India. J2 is related to the Ancient Etruscans, (Minoan) Greeks, Southern Anatolians, Phoenicians, Assyrians and Babylonians. In Europe, J2 reaches its highest frequency in Greece (especially in Crete, Peloponese and Thrace), Southern and Central Italy, Southern France, and Southern Spain. The ancient Greeks and Phoenicians were the main driving forces behind the spread J2 around the Western and Southern Mediterranean. J2 is thought to have arrived in Greece from Anatolia somtime between the (late) Neolithic and the Bronze Age.
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Post by bowandarrow on Jan 20, 2012 11:28:11 GMT -5
So basically J2a comes from Anatolia ( which is Pontus ) and to a lesser extent North Iraq ( Mesopotamia ) and North Syria ( Aleppo/Latakia ) E3b is also a Neolithic marker/gene it's got nothing to do with African Arabs which is the E1bb marker. E3b also started from the Near East/West Asia and is found in the southern part of the Balkans. www.jogg.info/32/bird.htm
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Hellenas
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Post by Hellenas on Jan 20, 2012 23:31:59 GMT -5
No sir, not according to me.. according to science. According to Science humans are humans not chims. Greeks referred to themselves as Pelasgians, Greki, Hellenes, Romii, Ragiades and finally Hellenes. They are descendants of their ancient ancestors=same people. Anthropologist Carleton S. Coon is not a "guy", but a Scientist, and you are illiterate as well, because all other Anthropologists support what he says.
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