ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jan 10, 2012 1:20:56 GMT -5
the link with your "SOURCE" doesnt work by the way. Is this the situation with all your sources? And yes, thats a rethorical question.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 10, 2012 1:57:06 GMT -5
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jan 10, 2012 2:20:53 GMT -5
GET THIS TO YOUR HEAD: 1st YOUR LINK DOES NOT WORK 2nd I TOTALLY DISAGREE SHOW ME PROOF OF TURKIC INFLUENCE ON BULGARIAN LANGUAGE APART FROM ONES OPPINION 3rd YOU AGAIN CHANGED THE SUBJECT THAT L IN BULGARIAN IS NOT TURKIC AS YOU SAID (LIED!!!!!!) BUT SLAVIC!!!!
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 10, 2012 3:06:06 GMT -5
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 10, 2012 3:33:37 GMT -5
good find, bro... muting the mongols is always fun.
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Jan 10, 2012 4:42:34 GMT -5
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jan 10, 2012 4:46:09 GMT -5
Read again: "SPOKE A VARIATION OF SLAVIC WITH TURKIC INFLUENCE" books.google.com/books?id=kfv6HKX....anguage&f=false[/quote] GET THIS TO YOUR HEAD: 1st YOUR LINK DOES NOT WORK 2nd I TOTALLY DISAGREE SHOW ME PROOF OF TURKIC INFLUENCE ON BULGARIAN LANGUAGE APART FROM ONES OPPINION 3rd YOU AGAIN CHANGED THE SUBJECT THAT L IN BULGARIAN IS NOT TURKIC AS YOU SAID (LIED!!!!!!) BUT SLAVIC!!!!
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Post by Moe Lester on Jan 10, 2012 5:07:58 GMT -5
I give you SOURCES you give me your own feelings and perceptions, this is the DIFFERENCE MOE. That was in reference to you calling me anti-serbian, and you're link doesn't work. You know your the one BS'ing here, l remember at the very beginning you telling us of your Croat friends in Sydney, then later saying l have only one Yugoslav friend and his Serbian. People don't forget in this forum. When did I say I had a Croatian friend in Sydney? I don't even live in Sydney. I said I knew two Croatian brothers in high school, and I didn't really talk to them that much. And I've always said that I've had a Serbo-Greek friend. A Source from Novi (l thank Krivo this one actually): The Bulgars originally spoke a Turkic language (although some scholars consider Bulgarian to be a related but seperate Altaic language family). Some of those Turkic tribes, or clan unions, who, intermingled with the Huns, were known as Bulgars, and were Ogurs of the Northwestern (Kyipchak) language group, sometimes called Ogur Turks, the Kutigurs, Onogurs, and Utigurs with varying names with oguri or orgurs or igurs as a suffix, meaning "tribes of". Some groups of Bulgars adopted the languages of other peoples; those who settled in present-day Bulgaria SPOKE A VARIATION OF SLAVIC WITH TURKIC INFLUENCE
books.google.com/books?id=kfv6HKX....anguage&f=falseYou were talking about the L being proof of Turkic influence on the Bulgarian language, I proved you wrong and now you're throwing some quote at me that has nothing to do what we were talking about (btw, the source doesn't work). This what Novi does he speaks with truth, not with feelings or perceptions, understand Moe? Nope, don't understand bulls**t. Maybe you should start making sense, then we can finally start talking about the truth. Listen you Goof, and listen where-ever sound waves may enter your soul (anus, mouth, ears, dik etc....). WHEN THE VARDARIAN SERBS WERE NAMING THEIR SONS SRBIN, THEY WERE DOING SO DURING THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE, AND NOT DURING TITO'S YUGOSLAVIA NOR THE BULGARIAN EXARCHOS, get it??
We've been through this . The names may indicate the origin, but not in most cases because it's just a name. Surnames have more validity in proving a person's origin (like Srbinovski, that might be proof enough for someone's Serbian origin). Oh boy , please read this and get it through your think skull. The link you posted to your source doesn't work[/size] The link you posted to your source doesn't work[/size] The link you posted to your source doesn't work[/size] The link you posted to your source doesn't work[/size] The link you posted to your source doesn't work[/size] The link you posted to your source doesn't work[/size] The link you posted to your source doesn't work[/size] The link you posted to your source doesn't work[/size]
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 10, 2012 6:06:12 GMT -5
moelested bro, DO NOT BOTHER
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Post by Moe Lester on Jan 10, 2012 7:23:02 GMT -5
moelested bro, DO NOT BOTHERYou're right. Why should I? Novi doesn't even trust his own kind (Serbs), so why should I (A non-Balkanian) bother trying to correct when when he loves to be wrong sometimes.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jan 10, 2012 7:54:30 GMT -5
The raping of NOthing goes on. Well done, Moe!!!!
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Kralj Vatra
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Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 10, 2012 8:16:22 GMT -5
^^^^ man show some character.... stop giving the mongols a bad name....
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Jan 10, 2012 9:41:38 GMT -5
mongolsssssss? grow up. if you should talk about great influence on the whole of the slavdome look east, man.
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Post by ulf on Jan 10, 2012 13:37:51 GMT -5
Janko Popovic was a Serb. Nobody considers him as Macedonian. All those "Bulgarians" heroes in Macedonia became famous after Bulgarian church started to teach Bulgarian in schools, the schools in which they were educated. The man I shown you haven't had this kind of propaganda based education as in 18th century there were no schools in Ottoman empire, so his ethnicity was his choice and his forefathers legacy. Macedonian Slavs had weaker identity then Serbs of Macedonia(plus they were most numerous), that's why they easy pickings for the Bulgarians
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Jan 10, 2012 13:54:28 GMT -5
ulf, isnt it strange that all the serbs who come from Macedonia (because there is a Serbian minority there) were never considered Macedonian by the Macedonians? I include here Dushan (whose capital was in Skopie) and Marco and all the other famous Serbs that were connected to macedonia. On the other hand all Bulgarian rulers (Nikola, Samuel, Ioan Vladislav etc.), Bulgarian heroes (Goze Delchev, Dame Gruev etc.) are claimed as "Macedonian"? I think you are clever enough to understand that the 30ty years of Bulgarian exarchate were not enough for the people to "make this right selection". It is obvious that the Macedonians always identified as Bulgarians, they saw the Bulgarian as their people and the Serbs as the foreigners.
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Post by ulf on Jan 10, 2012 14:27:49 GMT -5
ulf, isnt it strange that all the serbs who come from Macedonia (because there is a Serbian minority there) were never considered Macedonian by the Macedonians? I include here Dushan (whose capital was in Skopie) and Marco and all the other famous Serbs that were connected to macedonia. On the other hand all Bulgarian rulers (Nikola, Samuel, Ioan Vladislav etc.), Bulgarian heroes (Goze Delchev, Dame Gruev etc.) are claimed as "Macedonian"? I think you are clever enough to understand that the 30ty years of Bulgarian exarchate were not enough for the people to "make this right selection". It is obvious that the Macedonians always identified as Bulgarians, they saw the Bulgarian as their people and the Serbs as the foreigners. 30 years are absolutely enough. Those people haven't got identity before. You can see how easily people change even today few years after they migrate into another country, or when they get education there. I am talking just about western parts of Macedonia as I got only info for these parts(to be more exact Drim valley and Vardar valley, not talking eastern parts such as Stip, Gevgelija etc - for these I got no info) Also I hate talking about medieval period because that's something which wasn't clearly investigated. Some facts are known, but most are unknown. You wouldn't believe how dumb they concluded some things. Simple example from Serbian history. One Austrian and one Czech historians who were 2 main historians of that time were assigned by German Academy of Science(or Habsburgs, but irrelevant to the story) to write history of Serbian early state, so when they asked their Serbian colleagues what was called father of Stefan Nemanja they give them few options(since at the time there was few theories), they instantly concluded his name was Zavida because that's how it was written in Miroslavljevo jevandjelje(Miroslav and Nemanja were brothers, but it was never said which kind of brothers they were, because they could be step-brothers, pobratimi....even today we say for some cousins "brat od tetke/strica...", which again doesn't mean that we are direct brothers, it has multiple meaning). After that nobody even gave a second thought to this. All other historians acted in manner like if history is exact science(like physics for example, thus when you make a law and confirm it by mathematical method then thats it). Now, I haven't been searching much about Bulgarian history and how they(historians) concluded some things, because some things make no sense, but someday I'll find more. So I will leave this topic aside for now.
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Jan 10, 2012 14:50:20 GMT -5
Of course we can be on different oppinions and i know about mistakes in history, but the serbs ruled over the macedonians for much longer and they didnt manage to turn them into serbs.
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elemag
Senior Moderator
Posts: 369
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Post by elemag on Jan 10, 2012 15:33:30 GMT -5
Ulf....read some history, man. Haven't you heard about Samuil and from where he continued his fight against the Byzantines? Please.
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Post by ulf on Jan 10, 2012 16:01:49 GMT -5
Ulf....read some history, man. Stop acting like a teenager That's one of those illogical conclusions about Bulgarian history. You got one early source saying that he was of Slavic father and Armenian mother, how the f**k all of the sudden he became Bulgar. Then you got another source saying that his father was indeed Bulgarian nobleman. Then why the f**k the actual name of his dynasty is not known then. Its not like medieval Bulgaria was size of modern Russia for such things to remain unknown. Also Bulgaria at that time wasn't some barbaric country without any literacy schools, so these information probably exist somewhere. However I think they were hidden for a reason. As you can see that might indicate anything. Personally I believe he wasn't Bulgar, he just claimed so in order to get support among people, but ok, I really can't speak more about it since I didn't have much interest in this. I could also be wrong. Like I previously said many illogical things in early Balkan Slavic countries, because this history was written quick, with poor accuracy and without enough evidence.
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ivo
Amicus
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Post by ivo on Jan 10, 2012 16:07:41 GMT -5
Ulf, check yourself bro. What you've posted here is completely inaccurate. Those people had a clearly identified Bulgarian identity long before the Serbs ever ruled Macedonia, all these things have been extensively recorded by your friends the Greeks.
Again, this is false. Records of every single events may not have been found, but there's an abundance of facts that attest to the Bulgarian identity of these people during those times.
Know fact: Serbian politics starting from the late 1800's tried long and hard to de-Bulgarize Macedonia. Identifying as an ethnic Bulgarian in Serb occupied Macedonia was a sin, at times, punishable by death. Known fact: Greek politics during those same times aimed at doing the same thing in Aegean Macedonia and they used much the same methods. It is due to the Greek agenda of forced assimilation that the Bulgarian Exarchate was establish. ie. Contrary to what Pazar may think, the Bulgarian Exarchate was founded in order to preserve the Bulgarian identity in those areas of Macedonia that were ruled by Greeks (and Serbs).
Interesting example, but the truth is I don't think this is relevant to our discussions. The information we're talking about is corroborated by a multitude of different sources from different countries from different time periods. And we also know that your country initially attested to the Bulgarian identity of Macedonia, but later, due to politics, changed its stance completely.. and started a mass propaganda initiative based on deceit and misconstrued lies in an attempt to assimilate the local population into the Serbian ethnic group.
Again, we're basing our information on non Bulgarian sources. There've been plenty of people (non-Bulgarians) who have spent many years studying the subject.
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