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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 21:02:27 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 21:06:56 GMT -5
Well, ive found that the total number of Vlachs presently in Greece is around 100,000 people, or .9%.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Nov 15, 2012 21:53:13 GMT -5
What the hail is a Meglenites? Sounds like a buttrash to me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 22:04:23 GMT -5
What the hail is a Meglenites? Sounds like a buttrash to me. They are a very small group of romanian speaking people, their origins are thought to be Turkic, they are at most 5 villages.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Nov 15, 2012 22:10:40 GMT -5
thx
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Post by mansterofsouli on Nov 15, 2012 22:57:55 GMT -5
The former Communist Romanian state is guilty of confiscating businesses and properties of Greeks and other minorities under communism... perhaps they would like to address their own issues with minority rights before they try to deal with the issues in another country that are pretty much non issues.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 23:05:56 GMT -5
What the hail is a Meglenites? Sounds like a buttrash to me. They are a very small group of romanian speaking people, their origins are thought to be Turkic, they are at most 5 villages. They are not Turkic, they are a Romance nation speaking a language close to Romanian that is not a Romanian dialect despite what is claimed by Romanian "linguists". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megleno-Romanians
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 23:07:58 GMT -5
Well, ive found that the total number of Vlachs presently in Greece is around 100,000 people, or .9%. The number must be higher, around 300-500 000. I was asking about their national conscience, what percentage of them claim to be Greek, Vlach and Romanian?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2012 23:11:50 GMT -5
The former Communist Romanian state is guilty of confiscating businesses and properties of Greeks and other minorities under communism... perhaps they would like to address their own issues with minority rights before they try to deal with the issues in another country that are pretty much non issues. I don't know anything about properties. Haven't the Greeks got it back? Minorities are generally well treated in Romania since they have no territorial claims, like "Macedonians" in Greece. Except maybe Hungarians who are not allowed to have territorial autonomy and Aromanians who are not recognized as minority but are considered Romanians. I absolutely agree with the way Greece treats its minorities since "Macedonians" have territorial claims, Aromanians would probably want to live in Greater FYROM rather than in Greece since there they would have more rights.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2012 2:50:05 GMT -5
There is small technical problem. More than 5M of todays Greeks are of Vlah decent. What do those Romanians want? Just like more than 20M of todays Romanians are of Slavic decent. They better STFU.
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Post by amateurs on Nov 16, 2012 4:48:23 GMT -5
Grandpa' forgot to take his pills.
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Nov 16, 2012 9:16:50 GMT -5
There is small technical problem. More than 5M of todays Greeks are of Vlah decent. What do those Romanians want? Just like more than 20M of todays Romanians are of Slavic decent. They better STFU. Check this out. www.farsarotul.org/nl16_1.htmA small quote.
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Post by mansterofsouli on Nov 16, 2012 9:37:37 GMT -5
Perhaps some Greeks property and businesses have been returned but speaking from personal experience with family that hails from Romania but is of Greek descent I can say that nobody in my family has ever been compensated... my family owned textile factories which were taken over by the communist government. Very wealthy family of mine were reduced to destitute beggars who would play violin on the street corners for money. I would prefer not to mention names personally because I prefer to remain anonymous but my family that immigrated from their are now extremely successful business people in the United States with one in particular who has worked as a state secretary of business and commerce, advisor to university presidents at technological schools, CEO to major technology companies and a list of other huge accomplishments....everything the man touches turns to gold, no joke. I am pretty sure he would ask nothing of Romania but that is just how he is... he moved on and is better for it. ME? I AM JUST A LOWLY TEACHER TRYING TO SCRAPE THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL FOR A COUPLE DOLLARS. I have no stake in this claim but it just struck me as offensive that individuals within Romania would look outside of their borders and point the finger at how people who THEY believe are Romanian are treated... it is really none of their business especially since none of these Vlachs ever set foot in Romania and probably could care less for Romania and feel zero connection to Romania. I really think especially in regards to Greeks many of these so called VLACHS could also be Greeks of Romania who fled from communism. Perhaps that is why they speak a dialect that can be considered related in many ways to Romanian. The former Communist Romanian state is guilty of confiscating businesses and properties of Greeks and other minorities under communism... perhaps they would like to address their own issues with minority rights before they try to deal with the issues in another country that are pretty much non issues. I don't know anything about properties. Haven't the Greeks got it back? Minorities are generally well treated in Romania since they have no territorial claims, like "Macedonians" in Greece. Except maybe Hungarians who are not allowed to have territorial autonomy and Aromanians who are not recognized as minority but are considered Romanians. I absolutely agree with the way Greece treats its minorities since "Macedonians" have territorial claims, Aromanians would probably want to live in Greater FYROM rather than in Greece since there they would have more rights.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2012 9:40:55 GMT -5
There is small technical problem. More than 5M of todays Greeks are of Vlah decent. What do those Romanians want? Just like more than 20M of todays Romanians are of Slavic decent. They better STFU. Check this out. www.farsarotul.org/nl16_1.htmA small quote. In the meantime : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_influence_on_Romanian The sustainability of Slavic elements in Romanian is also evident in the toponymics of Romania and Moldova. Despite the fact that Dacia was a core of the empire's influence, the Romance-speaking population left the original Roman cities after the decline of the Roman Empire and shifted to semi-nomadic cattle-breeding. As a result, no original Roman place names survived north of the Danube. Newly-founded settlements were largely a result of Slavic (and, later, Hungarian) activities. Slavic place names are found throughout Romania and Moldova: Cernavodă, Prilog, Dumbrava, Bistriţa, Talna, Rus, Bistra, Glod, Ruscova, Straja, Putna, Hulub, Bâc, Tecuci, Potcoava, Corabia, Lipova, Holod, Topila, Ostrovu.
South of the Danube (where most Slavs eventually settled), the Vlach population was outnumbered and eventually assimilated. The processes of linguistic exchange in the Balkans appear to be unequal, most likely due to social and political circumstances. While Romanian exhibits significant Slavic influences, fewer Romance traces are found in the Slavic languages in general.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Nov 16, 2012 10:06:10 GMT -5
There is small technical problem. More than 5M of todays Greeks are of Vlah decent. What do those Romanians want? Just like more than 20M of todays Romanians are of Slavic decent. They better STFU. I would have to agree with Pyrros here mostly ... Romanians have NOTHING to do with any Balkan Vlachs and yes the Romanians would be partially a Slavic people
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Nov 16, 2012 10:26:12 GMT -5
Dumbrava, Rus, Glod, Straja, Hulub, Potcoava, Corabia, Ostrovu, Prilog, Bâc are Romanian language words and obvious Romanian toponyms. Also, Tecuci doesn't seems slavic at all. What you wrote has no scientific value. The very same proofs in that text prove only that. The Romanian state did compensate for the properties and businesses that were confiscated during the communist regime. Who's to blame you were too lazy or cheap to hire a lawyer in Romania to help you recover your proprieties? If you ask me I think it's not the Romanian state that should pay at all, but the Russian animals. Those primitives brought this plague on Romania, they killed the entire Romanian political class, much of the clerics, intellectuals and rich people. They plundered all the resources (oil, uranium, food, erc), they dismantled and carried in their steppes entire factories, probably most of what survived the war if not all. They still are very low, if not for the natural resources of Siberia they would have been in a worse state than Liberia.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 16, 2012 10:37:03 GMT -5
Dumbrava, Rus, Glod, Straja, Hulub, Potcoava, Corabia, Ostrovu, Prilog, B�c are Romanian language words and obvious Romanian toponyms. Also, Tecuci doesn't seems slavic at all. What you wrote has no scientific value. The very same proofs in that text prove only that. I gave the source, (wikipedia) go and sue them.
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Nov 16, 2012 10:55:12 GMT -5
What the hell does Prilog mean in Romanian? There are two types of Slavic toponyms in Romania: once that are also Romanian words and have a meaning in Romanian, not only in Slavic and others that don't like: Targoviste, Cernavoda, Prahova, Dambovita Prilog is a regional variant of „pârloagă”. I hope you know what pârloagă means. There are not two types of Slavic toponyms in Romania. There are only one type: Slavic toponyms like Craiova, Cernavodă, Snagov. It's obvious what are the toponyms that are not Romanian, they should be clear for every Romanian speaker.
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Post by amateurs on Nov 16, 2012 14:23:05 GMT -5
This whole thread has turned political and has little to do with history.
Rex doesn't want Aromanians to have any connections with Romanians because he himself is partially Vlach and doesn't like Romanians good enough to want to be linked with us. Fair enough. But, the connection between the Balkan Aromanians and the Romanians is ancient--that is, more than a thousand years back (excluding the little interaction there has been between the two people throughout the Middle Ages and later).
Yes, most Romanians are partially Slavic (partially being a keyword). And most Slavs have mixed with the natives. And Greeks have mixed with Slavs, Armenians, and whatever else. Only Albanians are 100% pure if we look back the last 20,000 years (insert laughter here).
As for the guy whose family wasn't compensated for what the Communists stole--I am sorry to hear that, but that doesn't really relate to this problem. If we were to discuss that, however, let me tell you that the EU in fact forced Romania to compensate everyone who could prove that they had been stolen: Romanians, Hungarians, Germans, Scandinavians and so on. If your family missed on anything, then it's most likely they either did not file any claims, or, they didn't have enough proof.
Now, what Romania required is this: that Aromanians are recognized not for being Romanian, but for being a minority, something that Albania--at least officially--already does. So let's not this discussion turn into I-dislike-Romania because of this, or that.
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Post by mansterofsouli on Nov 16, 2012 14:33:21 GMT -5
Instead of seeking out compensation from Romania my family focused on moving on with their lives and educating themselves and advancing in their careers... that is the type of people we are.... but here we have catcherintherye who accuses of being lazy and theives. He even tried to pass off all the blame on the Russians as if they are responsible. YES LETS BLAME THE RUSSIANS, WINK, WINK! Fact of the matter is there should have never needed to be compensation in the first place... wtf good is it when your family loses everything and is destitute and has to migrate to another country that is thousands of miles away? It is a little too late and too little to compensate people when you totally destroy their lives. Do peoples lives have a pricetag? This whole thread has turned political and has little to do with history. Rex doesn't want Aromanians to have any connections with Romanians because he himself is partially Vlach and doesn't like Romanians good enough to want to be linked with us. Fair enough. But, the connection between the Balkan Aromanians and the Romanians is ancient--that is, more than a thousand years back (excluding the little interaction there has been between the two people throughout the Middle Ages and later). Yes, most Romanians are partially Slavic (partially being a keyword). And most Slavs have mixed with the natives. And Greeks have mixed with Slavs, Armenians, and whatever else. Only Albanians are 100% pure if we look back the last 20,000 years (insert laughter here). As for the guy whose family wasn't compensated for what the Communists stole--I am sorry to hear that, but that doesn't really relate to this problem. If we were to discuss that, however, let me tell you that the EU in fact forced Romania to compensate everyone who could prove that they had been stolen: Romanians, Hungarians, Germans, Scandinavians and so on. If your family missed on anything, then it's most likely they either did not file any claims, or, they didn't have enough proof. Now, what Romania required is this: that Aromanians are recognized not for being Romanian, but for being a minority, something that Albania--at least officially--already does. So let's not this discussion turn into I-dislike-Romania because of this, or that.
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