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Post by ZhosDiletanti on Mar 3, 2013 4:00:48 GMT -5
Call us whatever you want, the fact is we were documented as existing way before you, and you were indegenous... what does this say about the "great" albanians who amounted to nothing? So? The Albanians were lucky to just survive (in an ethnic sense) when they could have easily gone the way of the dodo. We've survived the Greeks, the Romans, the Goths, the Avars, the Slavs, the Normans, the Turks, Imperialism, Italofascism and Communism. We were surrounded by great empires that were no friends to us with all their deep wells of money, culture and millions strong manpower and Albanians survived. It could have easily gone the other way and no one would have missed us, but we survived and we are happy about that. The trouble with the "great" and glorious achievements of the past is that they are in the past. A past long dead and gone. Look at the modern greeks ... lol. Although I'll admit that our own record is spotty. But I think that Albania's best days are in the future. Our final chapter has not been written yet.
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Post by Balkaneros on Mar 3, 2013 13:11:28 GMT -5
Call us whatever you want, the fact is we were documented as existing way before you, and you were indegenous... what does this say about the "great" albanians who amounted to nothing? So? The Albanians were lucky to just survive (in an ethnic sense) when they could have easily gone the way of the dodo. We've survived the Greeks, the Romans, the Goths, the Avars, the Slavs, the Normans, the Turks, Imperialism, Italofascism and Communism. We were surrounded by great empires that were no friends to us with all their deep wells of money, culture and millions strong manpower and Albanians survived. It could have easily gone the other way and no one would have missed us, but we survived and we are happy about that. The trouble with the "great" and glorious achievements of the past is that they are in the past. A past long dead and gone. Look at the modern greeks ... lol. Although I'll admit that our own record is spotty. But I think that Albania's best days are in the future. Our final chapter has not been written yet. The Albanians survived, this is something to be proud of and does deserve recognition in terms of glory, however that's a slippery slope as we see it almost always gets taken to the next level and lost in various interpretation of "context". With rex I am trying to highlight certain realities, which in the end comes off as useless cause we end up speaking to each other in a condescending manner and who wants to read or follow that.
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 14:23:14 GMT -5
oh .....we getting some crumbs from Uz ^ oh jeez
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Post by Balkaneros on Mar 3, 2013 14:31:59 GMT -5
maybe you're getting how I differentiate "Albanian" and "alb/albanian/albo(s)"
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Post by Balkaneros on Mar 3, 2013 15:39:18 GMT -5
Out of pure stupidity I bet the albies wouldn't hesitate to desecrate Skanderbegs fathers' grave just b/c it's in cyrillic.
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 16:34:29 GMT -5
Out of pure stupidity I bet the albies wouldn't hesitate to desecrate Skanderbegs fathers' grave just b/c it's in cyrillic. perspective my man perspective of that time "His religion was directly influenced by the international balance of political powers. It is believed that a popular saying in southern Albania "Where the sword is, there lies religion" ( Albanian: Ku është shpata, është feja) have originated from Gjon Kastrioti. [41] When he was an ally of Venice, in period 1407—1410, he was Roman Catholic. After he allied himself with Stefan Lazarević, despot of Serbian Despotate in period 1419—1426, he converted to Orthodoxy, and in 1431 he was converted to Islam because of he was a vassal of the Ottoman Empire." regardless of religion he was born Albanian and died Albanian case closed ....
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Post by Balkaneros on Mar 3, 2013 16:51:06 GMT -5
Out of pure stupidity I bet the albies wouldn't hesitate to desecrate Skanderbegs fathers' grave just b/c it's in cyrillic. perspective my man perspective of that time "His religion was directly influenced by the international balance of political powers. It is believed that a popular saying in southern Albania "Where the sword is, there lies religion" ( Albanian: Ku është shpata, është feja) have originated from Gjon Kastrioti. [41] When he was an ally of Venice, in period 1407—1410, he was Roman Catholic. After he allied himself with Stefan Lazarević, despot of Serbian Despotate in period 1419—1426, he converted to Orthodoxy, and in 1431 he was converted to Islam because of he was a vassal of the Ottoman Empire." regardless of religion he was born Albanian and died Albanian case closed .... No one expects a Muslim alb to understand... especially when it was the Albanian Christians who knew of him, not the Muslims. The Muslims feared him. There's your "perspective of the time".
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 17:00:44 GMT -5
no one expects .....but we do
haahhahaahh good try ....thats all you seem to do is divide us up by religion ....what do I keep telling you about this
last time -------> We are not made of religion
as I posted up above ...Gjon himself was Catholic ,Orthodox and Muslim at differ times ...
No..... the Sklavs feared him
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Post by Balkaneros on Mar 3, 2013 17:04:02 GMT -5
Hey rex, I have a challenge for you and chance for you to prove something/anything... Find me one Muslim Albanian source of the time (so during his life) speaking of Skanderbeg. Good Luck !
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 17:21:21 GMT -5
ok ....I will try ....but most likely not possible Albanians as Muslims is still new at that period of time .....you just cant expect someone to snap a finger and you learn a dance move in 22 seconds beside much of the conversion happened mostly after the death of Castrioti and the Ottomans did not allow Albanians to read or write ....unless you were upper crust (belair/pasha clan) ....and them Turks didn't want to hear about no Castrioti clan like you Sklavs ....did the Byzantines snap their fingers and you danced right away ....heck no it took a few centuries if not more .....Thank God for that Church Slavonic...... uh ? Btw ........but we Muslims sing about him to this day and let alone the oral history hand me down but ....oops ....wait found something ....slightly something ....maybe not "Also, interesting is a testimony from Frang Bardhi, who lived and wrote two centuries after Gjon Kastrioti's time: In his Apology, he writes about two "heroes" of his own time from the Kastrati family, one Muslim called Isuf bey, and the other Gjon "i.e. in Latin Iohannis Kastrati". [53] This same author, knowing the difference Gjon/Iohannis, specifically calls Skanderbeg's father by his Latin name."
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 17:26:14 GMT -5
never mind that isuf bey .....I misread it and not bcs I got excited
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Post by Balkaneros on Mar 3, 2013 17:35:37 GMT -5
ok imma have some fun and disect this:
You're right it's not possible. No Muslim Albanian during and directly after his time saw him as a hero, in fact they never recognized him at all. It was only the Christian Albanians who were for Skanderbeg.
I don't know what you're trying to say... what snapping fingers have to do with it? Either the Muslim Albanians recognized Skanderbeg during his life, or they didn't - THEY DIDN'T.
Percisely. Which goes with what I say; The Albanians thought the Ottomans were the only-alternative in order to continue to exist - this explains the massive waves of conversion.
ps; also keep in mind it was the Albanian Church that wrote and archived Skanderbeg's life/epic not the Mosques...
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 17:51:51 GMT -5
uh ....I edited a few items .... ....your fun is simply that ....just fun no relevance your mistaken .....your on a religious high with that religious spike divider of yours Castrioti's close Christians fled to Italy and inner greece ....there was practically no one to idolize left after his death its like your not making sense here ...slow down a bit .....maybe bcs you cant fathom a same people being many religions .....Castrioti was Muslim himself at one time ...and his father Catholic ,Muslim , Orthodox -again we are united by blood not religion -....for the 78th time yes I cant argue with that ...thats what we always say bcs its the truth ....but the important thing here is to exist and to exist as Albanians ....survival baby and again ...... "His religion was directly influenced by the international balance of political powers. It is believed that a popular saying in southern Albania "Where the sword is, there lies religion" ( Albanian: Ku është shpata, është feja) have originated from Gjon Kastrioti. [41] When he was an ally of Venice, in period 1407—1410, he was Roman Catholic. After he allied himself with Stefan Lazarević, despot of Serbian Despotate in period 1419—1426, he converted to Orthodoxy, and in 1431 he was converted to Islam because of he was a vassal of the Ottoman Empire."
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Post by Balkaneros on Mar 3, 2013 17:57:13 GMT -5
Rex, explain to me the massive waves of Albanians coverting to Islam? While also trying to stay in context pertaining to Albanians "not being" religious. lol good luck !
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Post by Balkaneros on Mar 3, 2013 18:06:24 GMT -5
oh and here's the icying....
"His religion was directly influenced by the international balance of political powers".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Now you're implying he wasn't strong at all, that Skanderbeg never walked on firm grounds and that he was shifty by nature - jumping alliances whenever it was convenient. This doesn't go at all with "live by the sword- die by the sword" mentality you goofs try to be so proud of.
This quote in specific actually puts Skanderbeg down terribly... must have been a Muslim who stated this.
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 18:08:21 GMT -5
and a little more emphasis on this one
history proves that Othrodoxy and/or Catholism did not do the Albanians any wonders.... even before the Sklavs landed in the Balkans ....
We as Illyrians were still stuck on Paganism and to dance to Byzantines forced conversion was large even for other Pagan ethnicities ......they wanted us to dance at the snap of their fingers ....but it took a long time and once monotheism was accepted it wasn't accepted full blown .....it couldn't be bcs many were killed or tortured for it ....villages and whole cantons burned and destroyed.
Orthodoxy or Catholism didn't do any good for Castrioti and his unified country of Pure ALbanians....IT DIDNT DO SQUATT NO ONE CAME TO AID ......NOT CHRISTIAN SKLAVS CHURCH OR gREEK CHRISTIAN CHURCH .....I guess they didnt like the idea of 100 % Albanians in their own certified country maybe uh ?
So out of necessity and certain benefits of not having the females in our clans raped .....Here I am - And still ALBANIAN
Like Church Slavonic that united the Sklavs and other ethnicities (Illyrians/Vlachs) and eventually became serbians who embraced it
take the Bogomils for example ..they were ridiculed by Othodoxy and Catholicism so their conversion to Islam seemed like a survivalist move
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 18:14:43 GMT -5
oh and here's the icying.... "His religion was directly influenced by the international balance of political powers".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now you're implying he wasn't strong at all, that Skanderbeg never walked on firm grounds and that he was shifty by nature - jumping alliances whenever it was convenient. This doesn't go at all with "live by the sword- die by the sword" mentality you goofs try to be so proud of. This quote in specific actually puts Skanderbeg down terribly... must have been a Muslim who stated this. you lost all context .....the survival game again here the Castriotis were in constant dialogue with the Italians for help and aid ....but not much was sent ...maybe some horses and good wishes ....maybe bcs they secretly wanted Orthodoxy to fail and the ottomans to happen btw ....what did serbs or greeks help with thank you and case closed
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 18:17:00 GMT -5
Rex, explain to me the massive waves of Albanians coverting to Islam? While also trying to stay in context pertaining to Albanians "not being" religious. lol good luck ! I kind of do that 2 posts up .....before you even asked here .... I can read your fukn mind Sklavon .....
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Post by Balkaneros on Mar 3, 2013 18:26:07 GMT -5
oh and here's the icying.... "His religion was directly influenced by the international balance of political powers".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Now you're implying he wasn't strong at all, that Skanderbeg never walked on firm grounds and that he was shifty by nature - jumping alliances whenever it was convenient. This doesn't go at all with "live by the sword- die by the sword" mentality you goofs try to be so proud of. This quote in specific actually puts Skanderbeg down terribly... must have been a Muslim who stated this. you lost all context .....the survival game again here the Castriotis were in constant dialogue with the Italians for help and aid ....but not much was sent ...maybe some horses and good wishes ....maybe bcs they secretly wanted Orthodoxy to fail and the ottomans to happen btw ....what did serbs or greeks help with thank you and case closed case is still open... you didn't even respond to what I was saying... You quote has relation to; "Live on your knees, or die standing"... you're saying he'd rather live on his knees. C'mon man, even I give Skanderbeg wayyyy more credit than that.
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Post by rex362 on Mar 3, 2013 18:26:16 GMT -5
Again :
Orthodoxy or Catholicism didn't do any good for Castrioti and his unified country of Pure Albanians....
IT DIDNT DO SQUATT NO ONE CAME TO AID ......NOT CHRISTIAN SKLAVS CHURCH OR gREEK CHRISTIAN CHURCH
I guess they didnt like the idea of 100 % Albanians in their own certified country maybe uh ?
LIKE YOU FUKERS DONT LIKE ETHNIC ALBANIA UNIFIED TODAY !
THATS BCS BOTH YOU FUKKERS ARE THE TRUER OTTOMANS !!!!!
A pow please ...anyone
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