rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,068
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Post by rex362 on May 14, 2013 8:24:05 GMT -5
well it seems from this study that Europeans are very close to each other .....but its seems us Albanians have held our own pretty good ....according to this latest genetic study ... IBD = identity by descent www.plosbiology.org/article/info ... io.1001555
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Post by Balkaneros on May 15, 2013 11:22:58 GMT -5
this what we were always saying, and how Albanians were always in the High lands in Albania while the Slavs settled the Low otherwise this data wouldn't be the case.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on May 16, 2013 22:04:05 GMT -5
Bingo! Albanians came later to the Balkans.
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Post by kapedan on May 19, 2013 11:38:25 GMT -5
Exactly right. Much much later. That is exactly what a Semitic Ionian would say.
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Post by kapedan on May 21, 2013 18:04:20 GMT -5
Are Albanians a pure race; The answer is NO.
"The Albanians are today a mixed race, as is every European people." (William Paul Dillingham, REPORTS OF THE IMMIGRATION COMMISSION: DICTIONARY OF THE RACES OF PEOPLES, p14) "From many of the foregoing indications it is obvious that the Albanians can by no means be regarded as a pure race. In popular works of travel or fiction a certain halo of romance is thrown over the people, who are represented as endowed with almost classic symmetry of form and beauty. This is to some extent true in the south, where intermixture with the kindred Hellenes could scarcely be otherwise than beneficial, and even in the extreme north, where the elements here absorbed belonged to some of the best Slav blood Serbs and Montenegrins." (Norman Taylor, NATURE, p246) "Certainly the Gheggas have in their course of their history had a large intermixture of Slavic blood, both Serb and Bulgarian" (Arthur Evans, ILLYRIAN LETTERS, p 138) "The Tosks, on the other hand, have had at different times a large Greek intermixture, and it is significant fact that in certain localities in their area the ancient Hellenic type of beauty (some approaches to which I noticed among Gheggas), which has vanished elsewhere, survives in its full perfection. To this Hellenic intermixture is probably due the superior keenness of the Tosk intellect." (Arthur Evans, ILLYRIAN LETTERS, p 138) CHARACTERESTICS: "The northern Gegs are more rude and warlike and generally herdsmen; the Tosks, more civilized and settled agriculturalists. The Gegs are taller, and more truly Albanian in type; the Tosks, darker and more like modern Greeks." (William Paul Dillingham, REPORTS OF THE IMMIGRATION COMMISSION: DICTIONARY OF THE RACES OF PEOPLES, p14) "From a physical point of view(...) Yet in one respect he resembles the Asiatic type; he has one of the broadest heads not only of Europe but of the world. The face is broad, in sharp contrast with the long, oval face of the pure Greek type, which adjoins the Albanian on the south. It is this combination of giantism and hyperbrachycephaly, that makes the race physically distinct and seems to warrant Deniker in giving it a separate name, the 'Adriatic' or 'Dinaric'." (William Paul Dillingham, REPORTS OF THE IMMIGRATION COMMISSION: DICTIONARY OF THE RACES OF PEOPLES, p13-14) ILLYRIANS: "The Epirots of the Vilayet Yanina from the remotest times largely intermingled with the Dorian Greeks, and now almost completely Hellenized." (Norman Taylor, NATURE, p244) "One section of the Illyrians, which had a strong admixture of Celtic blood, namely Histria, became part of Italy at an early date" (Michael Ivanovitch Rostovteff, THE SOCIAL & ECONOMIC HISTORY OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, p217) "The Illyrians of DALMATIA, PANNONIA and one part of MOESIA SUPERIOR were not a pure race." (Michael Ivanovitch Rostovteff, THE SOCIAL & ECONOMIC HISTORY OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, p219)
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Post by kapedan on May 21, 2013 19:08:00 GMT -5
GREEK (sometimes Hellenic^. The modern (ireek race or i)eople is that wliidi lias descended, with consider-
Dictionary of Races or Peoples.
69
Greek.
able foroigu ailiuixture. from the fa- ii.oiis race of anoiont CJriH'ks. which is one of the oldest branches of the Aryan group (see), and the tirst to reach a hijih state of civilization. While the stock has changed much, physically and otherwise, the modern li.nguage is more nearly like the ancient Greek than Italian, for in- stance, is like the ancient Latin. The race is now one of the smaller and lomparatively unimportant of Europe, but it has recently developetl a high rate of immigration to America.
Are the modern Greeks a diflferent race from the ancient Greeks'? Al- though ethnologists differ upon this (juestion, the answer would appear to be that they are one and the same race when judged by their language, which is the test applied in this dictionary to all European races; but that they differ in part at least when judged by physical characteristics. Von Ilellwald calls the ancient race the Hellenic (Hcllencn) and the later lace the moilern Greek iNeugriechen). The ancient Greeks were of the so- called Mediterranean type, long- I'.eaded, and of classic regularity of features. While this type still pre- vails in Greece the infiuence of ad- mixture with alien blood has pro- duced a type, indigenous to parts of the country, which differs materially from the ancient Greeks, in that they .-.re broad-headed, broad-faced, and more heavily built, although perhaps no darker than the ancients. Whether the latter were blond or brunette is still a mooted question, with the probability that they were like the " Mediterranean " race of the present (lay. deeply brunette. Amongst the Greeks of to-day are found two dis- tinct physical types more sharply separated than in most natiomilities : One, the ancient, long-headinl type of Greece, with a ce|)halic index of I't; the other, the bntad-headtHl type that conies from the Slavic. Albanian, o'- Turkish admixture (see these), some-
Greek.
times with the extremely high index of .SS. Tlies«s however, must be re- garded as extremes, and Hij>ley says that the cei)halic index of the modern Greeks ranges with great constancy about SI. All of the Greeks of Asia Minor are distinctly broad-headed, it is said, like the Turks among whom they live.
To what degree the ancient and the modern races of Greece differ in char- acter and civilization may be still more difficult to determine than their physical types. The most contradictory accounts are given by partisans on this point. It can not be denied at least that the ancient Greeks were leaders in the civilization of tlieir own da}-, and laid the foundations of mod- ern civilization ; while modern Greece is one of the weaker nations of Europe. The ancient Greeks were l.reeminent in philosophy and science, a position not generally accredited to the modeni Greeks as a race, although there is no doubt as to their nimble intelligence. They compete with the Hebrew race as the best traders of the Orient. If there be a great dif- ference between the ancient and the modern civilization of Greece, the question still remains whether this change should be explained as simply the decadence of an ancient race or because of the debasement it has re- ceived, as did the civilization of the Koman, through the incursions of bar- barian hordes, and, in recent history, through the long oppression of Turk- ish rule.
It is not generally understood that the language of the modern Greeks is really the language of the ancient Greeks. The difference is only dia- lectal. The literary language of to- day is but a continuation of the main literary dialect of ancient Greece, the Attic, as modified in passing through tlu' P.yzanline. It, or rather the mod- ern vernacular, is sometimes called Itomaic, a misleading term, which found its origin in the period of Ro-
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The Immigration Commission.
Greek.
nuui supremacy. To this day the (Ireeks living in Euroiieau Turkey are called Romtiika. There are several dialects of the modern Greek or Ro- maic, such as the Mainot, the Pha- nariot, and the Cypriot, which need no further discussion in this connec- tion. Of late there is a tendency among Greek authors to return more closely to the ancient form of the language. The spoken dialects of Greece vary more widely from it, al- though the so-called Tsaconic, which is- spoken on the eastern side of lower Greece (Peloponnesus or ^Nlorea), closely resembles the ancient Dorian. The modern language is much closer to the ancient than any modern de- scendant of the Latin is to the ancient Latin. Greek is no longer spoken by the Greek colonists of southern Italy, nor even by many of the Greeks of Asia Minor. Crete is practically all Greek, and even southern Macedonia and the coast as far east as Constanti- nople itself, which has a larger popu- lation of Greeks than of Turks. As has been explained in the article "Turkish" (see), the Turks them- selves form but a small minority of the l)opulatlon of Turkey.
The Greek race of to-day is in- tensely proud of its language and its history, and naturally wishes to be considered as genuinely Hellenic. The official title of the country is now the " Kingdom of Hellas," and any citizen, however mixed in race, styles himself a Hellone. The peoi)le are wide-awake on political questions, are avid readers of newsi)apers, and. like the Greek of olden times, eager to learn some new thing. Generally speaking, in c-ustonis, superstitions, and folklore, llie modern race Is a continuation of the ancient. It shows in other re- spects, as in the clothing now worn, the influence of the mixture of races. As already intimated, the race is com- mercial rather than agricultural In its instincts, and in that respect differs from the Slavic, by which it is sup-
Greek.
posed to be modified. In religion it is Orthodox (Greek), which is also the national church of Russia and several other countries of eastern and south- eastern Europe. It is from this ex- pansion of the Greek religion that much confusion has arisen in the use of the racial name. Even Rutheuians (see), or Little Russians, in America sometimes call themselves Greeks, apparently in contradistinction from their Slavic neighbors, who are Catho- lic. Statistics published by Greek partisans are said to exaggerate the number of Greeks found in Turkey by counting as such Bulgarians, Servians, and others who have become Hellen- ized* and are members of the Greek Church.
How many of the inhabitants of Greece itself are really non-Grecian in race is a question diflicult to answer. No statistics of the country are taken by race. It is well known, however, that eastern Greece, even in the Pelo- ponnesus, has a large Albanian popu- lation, usually estimated at about 200,- 000. They are so fully Hellenized that but 40,000 now speak the Albanian language. This is perhaps the chief foreign element that is incorr)orated into the Greek race, although special account must be made also of the Slavic, the Turkish, the Roman, and the (Jothlc, and even the Roumanian (Kutzo-Vlach, or Tsintsar). The last named is so recent in arrival that it is hardly yet incorporated into the race. It has come in largely since (Jreec-e was freed from Turkish rule, in ISoO, and still forms large settle- ments extending from the central part of northern Greece into Macedonia. The Slavic element is the oldest that has profoundly modificxl the stock of ancient Greece. By the sixth century Greece had been overrun time and again by Slavic tribes to the very southern extremity of the country.
It may not be c(mmionly known that the greater part of the (ireeks live out- side of Greece. The total population
Dictionary of Races or Peoples.
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Greek.
..f I lit' o.imtry miiiiluM-s but 2.(1(X).0(X). iimch less lliiiu half tlio poiuiliition of siK-h small ((unitries as Holland and lU'lpiuni. Kii>k\v, ('liisbolni, and others say that tho Creek race num- bers above S,(KH1.(HK). although the more et)muion estimates place it under -l.r.(K).(X)0 in Europe, or something over "i.fKM^.oon in Kurojie and Asia Minor ci.mbinwl. Chisholm says that the Creeks living outside of Greece are twice as numerous as those in Greece, liipley says that they form a third of the total population of the Balkan States. The latter number at least 20.000.(HX). Even the Statesman's Year-Book gives the total number of Greeks as 8,8.10.000, divided as fol- lows: In Greece. 2.200.000; in Enro- I)ean Turkey, 4.000,000; in Asia :Minor, 2.000.000: in insular Gree<'e. etc., G50.000. On the other hand, von Ilell- wald says that of the popnl;i(ion of (ireoce itself only about 1.300,000 are truly Greek in race.
In 1907, 46.283 Greeks were admitted to the United States, the largest num- ber in any single year. Of these 36.404 came from Greece. 7,060 from Euro- jiean Turkey, and 1.353 from Turkey in Asia. In the twelve years ISnO-lOlO. 216.962 Greeks were admitted to the United States, and 79.6 per cent of them came from Greece. The race milked twelfth in the number of im- migrants furnished during that period. Greeks go to the States having the l.irgest cities, the ju-incipal destinations during the period mentioned being New York, 70,007. Massachusetts, 34,4r.O. Illinois. .31,014. Pennsylvania, 12.8.3'.), and Missouri. 12.673.
Accei)ting 6.000.000 as a conservative estimate of the population of the race, more than 7 per 1.000 of population came to the T'nited States in the year 1907. The rate of immigration from Greece alone in that year was nearly twice as great, about 14 jter 1,000 of the pojiulation. This was the highest
Gypsy.
rate of any cotuitry. Norw.iy being second with Kt per l,fKM». Tho Greeks, as a race, came in that year at a more rapid rate than all other immigrant races or peoples with the exception of the Slovaks Hebrews, Groat ians and Slovenians, South Italians, Norwegians, Irish, Poles, and Miigyars. As shown elsewhere (see Hebrew and Slav), the Hebrews j'.nd the Slovaks in that year stood at tlie head with about 18 immigrants per 1,000 population.
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Post by dilbert100 on May 22, 2013 5:07:48 GMT -5
my thoughts exactly......
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 8, 2013 23:17:08 GMT -5
1.Its hard for them to accept that Southern Europeans were the only people in Europe during antiquity to have Civilization. 2."The Albanian language, a hybrid between Illyrian, Thracian, Latin, Slavic, Turkish, and other elements, reflects the ethnically composite origin of the Albanians." - Carleton Stevens Coon; The Races of Europe.3.If Greeks have mixed so has Albania and the rest of Europe; its common sense. 1. It looks like it,Nordicism. The northerners think they were always better at everything. 2. That can be said for probably every language in the world. I mean,Turkish has lots of Persian and Arabic in it. 3. Mostly ethnically that is,I would think.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jul 8, 2013 23:28:15 GMT -5
well it seems from this study that Europeans are very close to each other .....but its seems us Albanians have held our own pretty good ....according to this latest genetic study ... IBD = identity by descent www.plosbiology.org/article/info ... io.1001555 Very interesting,rex! Thanks for posting!
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