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Post by jerryspringer on Dec 7, 2007 14:30:16 GMT -5
I did not mistake any geographic region, Radovic.
Diur, you're just another victim of romanticism.
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Post by c0gnate on Dec 7, 2007 15:02:38 GMT -5
Welcome back, Annita.
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Post by radovic on Dec 7, 2007 15:10:59 GMT -5
I did not mistake any geographic region, Radovic. Diur, you're just another victim of romanticism. You did. Banat is north of the Danube, not south. Romanians in Banat do not call themselves Vlachs. Two big errors discrediting your story.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Dec 7, 2007 15:13:00 GMT -5
Is anyone here aware of the presence of Romanians/Vlachs in quantative numbers in the towns/cities of Pozarevac and Kladovo? C0gnate?
Reason I ask is because my grandmother's brother, a resident in Mitrovica now, knows a little Romanian/Vlach. He can manage basic conversation, and in earlier years, he was even more fluent in it. The reason for this was because he spent eight years in Serbia. He told my father of a vaste number of Vlachs in Timocka krajina. Is Kladovo part of Timocka krajina? And Pozarevac? If I am not mistaken, the latter is in Vojvodina?
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Post by jerryspringer on Dec 7, 2007 15:29:42 GMT -5
I was thinking another thing about these Vlachs in Serbian Banat: what have they achieved? The Greek diaspora has achieved a lot of good things. The same with the Jews. The Turks brought kebab and the Albanians the maffia.
But what have the Vlachs of Banat done? What is their main industry, except for making cheese? I've heard that Milosevic was partially Vlach and that another Serb president had Vlach roots. Well, congrats! You only need Hitler, Stalin and Mao and you'll have a straight flush.
The question is, why is C0gnate here? Is he here to learn about Romania and interact with Romanians? Hardly, altough he seems to have shown some interest in the churches built by Mircea in Banat. He is here to promote his tiny people and remind the rest of us that they are still to be counted with. Poor C0gnate misses his home flock that he comes here to stimulate his memories by spamming our Romanian forum with videos of flutes and sheep. This pervert then goes on to brag about slaughtering a pig in America in his own barbaric fashion. Not only is this illegal in the civilized world, but it is also immoral and has no place in true Romanian culture (Muntenian and Oltenian savagery is excluded for obvious reasons).
Diur, be so kind and remind me of the Moldavian law which prevented cruelty against animals and threatened with punishment of lashes. I forget its name. Yes, shameful, but at least I didn't forget my identity.
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Post by c0gnate on Dec 7, 2007 16:10:09 GMT -5
Is anyone here aware of the presence of Romanians/Vlachs in quantative numbers in the towns/cities of Pozarevac and Kladovo? C0gnate? Reason I ask is because my grandmother's brother, a resident in Mitrovica now, knows a little Romanian/Vlach. He can manage basic conversation, and in earlier years, he was even more fluent in it. The reason for this was because he spent eight years in Serbia. He told my father of a vaste number of Vlachs in Timocka krajina. Is Kladovo part of Timocka krajina? And Pozarevac? If I am not mistaken, the latter is in Vojvodina? Indeed there are no Vlachs in any numbers in Banat, which is north of the Danube. The Romanian population in the Serbian Banat (part of Vojvodina) is about 35 000 now, down from some 80 000 at the end of WWI, when the region was incorporated into the kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, later called Yugoslavia. The reason for the decrease is large scale emigration to the West, and to a lesser extent assimilation into the Yugoslav, now Serbian, society. The Vlachs of Eastern Serbia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs_of_Serbiamost of whose ancestors were of a Romanian (north of the Danube) origin, live in the triangular territory defined roughly by the Morava river on the West and South, the Danube on the North, and the Timok river on the East. The Vlach population continues eastward into Bulgaria, past the city of Vidin. The true number of these Vlachs is hard to pin down. Officially in 2004 there some 40 000. Unofficially they could be between 200 000 and 300 000, maybe even more, but they choose to declare themselves as Serbs, or Yugoslavs. The main cities with large Vlach populations are Zajecar, Negotin, Bor, Kladovo, Majdanpek, Petrovac na Mlavi, Cuprija, and Pozarevac. These Vlachs have very little in common with the Vlachs of Albania, Greece, and Macedonia, who are otherwise known as Armani or Aromanians. In the Balkans the term Vlach is frequently used imprecisely, and to the typical user it doesn't mean much more than "weird pastoral people, with some obscure Romanic language, of whom we know nothing". The Serbian state and especially the Serbian Orthodox Church have done their best to obscure and obfuscate the history of the Vlachs. The situation in Albania and Greece with respect to the Aromanians is similar.
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Post by c0gnate on Dec 7, 2007 16:12:59 GMT -5
The question is, why is C0gnate here? I work for the CIA and I'm here to keep President Bush informed of the latest developments in the Global War on Terror.
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Post by arumani on Dec 8, 2007 9:51:59 GMT -5
shame on you jerry springer, there's one thing i hate about you man, your fvcked up show sponsored by fvckin jews like you, stop hating the vlach people, they are very romanian as much as arumanians like me. never, they will always want to keep their Daco-Rumani identity forever, and not friggin fvcked up russianoid slavic serbs like you, piss off to russia radovic, all serbia include belgrade belongs to romania ever since daco-roman times. mor radovic mor, S-nã videm cu ghine!
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Post by diurpaneus on Dec 8, 2007 10:52:39 GMT -5
Diur, be so kind and remind me of the Moldavian law which prevented cruelty against animals and threatened with punishment of lashes. I forget its name. Yes, shameful, but at least I didn't forget my identity. It was in the code of Scarlat Callimachi from 1817.
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Post by arumani on Dec 8, 2007 11:11:29 GMT -5
why that law is not practiced in romania then? they think that stupid friggin western laws are better than our own but most civilised laws in the world?
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Post by radovic on Dec 8, 2007 13:01:20 GMT -5
Like I said, they can freely do as they wish. They can declare themselves Vlachs or Romanians or whatever they want. If they don't want to associate themselves with Romania they have the right to do that. Plus, Vlachs aren't assimilating their population will stay at the current level from now on.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Dec 8, 2007 13:57:30 GMT -5
Interesting C0gnate.
And yes, it cannot be denied that the Vlachs have suffered a terrible blow in terms of forced/imposed assimilation. This was also enhanced by the fact that Vlachs were so scattered, I believe, not always forming a compact body in terms of geography. They did during history, such as in Thessaly which was Vlach-dominated atleast until the late Middle Age.
In Serbia, however, in ethnographic terms, the Banat Romanians inhabited lands that were geographically adjacent to Serbia. I guess that's a source to be extra careful in terms of allowing cultural autonomy. This development with the churches is a clear indicator of this.
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Post by c0gnate on Dec 8, 2007 17:15:59 GMT -5
In Serbia, however, in ethnographic terms, the Banat Romanians inhabited lands that were geographically adjacent to Serbia. I guess that's a source to be extra careful in terms of allowing cultural autonomy. This development with the churches is a clear indicator of this. Parallels between Kosovo and the Vlach region of eastern Serbia have been drawn more than once, not only by paranoid Serbs. In the 1980's a leading Kosovar (Albanian) politician, who was a member of the Yugoslav government, said to a Vlach politician, who was also in the government: "First us, then you". But I don't believe the Vlachs have irredentist aspirations. They just want schools, religion and media in their own language. And an open acknowledgment of their history.
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Post by radovic on Dec 9, 2007 1:26:36 GMT -5
In Serbia, however, in ethnographic terms, the Banat Romanians inhabited lands that were geographically adjacent to Serbia. I guess that's a source to be extra careful in terms of allowing cultural autonomy. This development with the churches is a clear indicator of this. Parallels between Kosovo and the Vlach region of eastern Serbia have been drawn more than once, not only by paranoid Serbs. In the 1980's a leading Kosovar (Albanian) politician, who was a member of the Yugoslav government, said to a Vlach politician, who was also in the government: "First us, then you". But I don't believe the Vlachs have irredentist aspirations. They just want schools, religion and media in their own language. And an open acknowledgment of their history. Under the law now that Vlachs are recognized as Romanians by the end of 2008 at the latest they should have their own schools and media in their own language. The religion think is something that is outside of state control and can only be solved by agreement between the Romanian & Serbian churches. I believe the present Serbian authorities have not extended these rights until now because Vlachs were supporters of Milosevic (several Vlachs reached prominent status under his rule -- Serbian president from 1997-2001 was a Vlach called Zoran Lilic).
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Post by c0gnate on Dec 9, 2007 2:27:21 GMT -5
I believe the present Serbian authorities have not extended these rights until now because Vlachs were supporters of Milosevic (several Vlachs reached prominent status under his rule -- Serbian president from 1997-2001 was a Vlach called Zoran Lilic). Yes, you have something there, Radovic. I doubt that the 40 000 who declared themselves as Vlach supported Milosevic. But those 200 000 to 300 000 who in 2004 said they were Serbs -- probably did. Many of those still subscribe to the agendas of the Radical and Socialist Parties which oppose Vlach emancipation. Given a choice, most people would rather not be a minority.
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Post by vlaici on Dec 9, 2007 7:12:05 GMT -5
why that law is not practiced in romania then? they think that stupid friggin western laws are better than our own but most civilised laws in the world? quote]
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Post by vlaici on Dec 9, 2007 7:14:58 GMT -5
why that law is not practiced in romania then? they think that stupid friggin western laws are better than our own but most civilised laws in the world? Do we have western laws?
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Dec 9, 2007 15:15:54 GMT -5
The biggest problem is with those that should apply the laws.
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Post by arumani on Dec 9, 2007 19:12:18 GMT -5
*** you speak alot shack of chit seriously, serbs force non-ethnic serbs to assimilate and you said that vlachs can do freely as they wish, man your completely hopeless.
that's not how it is in serbia, i can tell you that for sure.
they have the rights to associate with romania always, romania is their mother country you ***.
good they shouldnt.
ACT CIVIL (and change that huge signature)
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Post by radovic on Dec 10, 2007 12:16:27 GMT -5
I believe the present Serbian authorities have not extended these rights until now because Vlachs were supporters of Milosevic (several Vlachs reached prominent status under his rule -- Serbian president from 1997-2001 was a Vlach called Zoran Lilic). Yes, you have something there, Radovic. I doubt that the 40 000 who declared themselves as Vlach supported Milosevic. But those 200 000 to 300 000 who in 2004 said they were Serbs -- probably did. Many of those still subscribe to the agendas of the Radical and Socialist Parties which oppose Vlach emancipation. Given a choice, most people would rather not be a minority. The Romanian party in Banat established a branch in the Vlach region and that party had no support among the Vlachs. I am pretty sure the majority of the Vlachs support the Radicals since they have 1 Vlach member who during the drafting of the new constitution wanted to have Serbia recognized as the nation state of the Vlachs (in addition to that status being given to Serbs).
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