ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Mar 3, 2008 14:04:38 GMT -5
Hello my Bulgarian fellows! Happy national holiday to all Bulgarian and friends to Bulgaria! Happy liberation day!
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Post by julius on Mar 3, 2008 14:28:18 GMT -5
Happy Liberation Day man. May your nation live forever in peace and prosperity.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Mar 3, 2008 14:33:10 GMT -5
Thank u julius, I hope your kind wishes become reality. Its really overdue
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Post by bb681 on Mar 3, 2008 15:20:38 GMT -5
Congrats!
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Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 3, 2008 15:38:56 GMT -5
Nice words.. same to you!
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Post by yahadj on Mar 4, 2008 9:12:33 GMT -5
Congratulation to your ancestors!
They diedfor your freedom but you traded it for a few bucks. Enjoy your new masters - EU! I hope to congratulate you when you regain your freedom from them, too... ;D
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Mar 4, 2008 14:36:32 GMT -5
Congratulation to your ancestors! They diedfor your freedom but you traded it for a few bucks. Enjoy your new masters - EU! I hope to congratulate you when you regain your freedom from them, too... ;D I dont know if u are serious or if u are joking, but to even compare EU with the Ottoman Empire is just sick. We joined EU voluntarily, its a community of wealth, cooperation and solidarity. We are very new member and we hope we contribute to its growing importance. EU is everything OE never was.
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Post by bb681 on Mar 4, 2008 14:37:27 GMT -5
Congratulation to your ancestors! They diedfor your freedom but you traded it for a few bucks. Enjoy your new masters - EU! I hope to congratulate you when you regain your freedom from them, too... ;D I dont believe Im saying this but even Russian/Soviet occupation is preferable to Turkish/Ottoman one. Nothing personal but I believe that most rationally thinking Bulgarians would think likewise.
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Post by yahadj on Mar 4, 2008 23:51:32 GMT -5
Congratulation to your ancestors! They diedfor your freedom but you traded it for a few bucks. Enjoy your new masters - EU! I hope to congratulate you when you regain your freedom from them, too... ;D I dont know if u are serious or if u are joking, but to even compare EU with the Ottoman Empire is just sick. We joined EU voluntarily, its a community of wealth, cooperation and solidarity. We are very new member and we hope we contribute to its growing importance. EU is everything OE never was. Liberation means sovereignity my friend. If you are not ruling yourself, doesn't matter who is your master, bottom line you are not free. No any pride in that. It was yoke when you were under Byzantian rule. Then you came under Ottomans rule. It seems you liked us the most. Mama mu stara 500 godini ne e malko vreme. I magareto da go vurjish nyama da izdurji dori i edna godina. Shto za opresiya e bila vuobshte ne znam, lele male golayama rabota! Let's not even talk about Russians "vashite bratushki". You couln't even stand them for more than 50 years. I am looking forward to see how long EU can keep you satisfied. I have a suggestion. Why don't you cut that enthusiasm of looking for masters and start working hard for your own interests? Is that so tough? Well that would be something to celebrate... But still nobody beats Ottomans. 500 years...
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Post by bb681 on Mar 5, 2008 3:12:19 GMT -5
Sure,sure...lets all be a careless and free hippy society that the Ottoman/Turkish state has tried to apply throughout the history:)
You make it sound like we wanted to stay for five centuries under opression while if you knew anything about the Cold war,its well known that the whole thing was ended by the Soviet Union itself and this applies to all of eastern Europe at once, not just Bulgaria. As for the EU,I hope everybody can be oppresed that way...
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Post by pagane on Mar 5, 2008 7:50:49 GMT -5
×åñòèò ïðàçíèê è îò ìåí, ìàêàð è ñ ìàëêî çàêúñíåíèå. À òîçè ßõà÷ å ìíîãî êóõà ëåéêà.
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Post by yahadj on Mar 5, 2008 9:26:39 GMT -5
Sure,sure...lets all be a careless and free hippy society that the Ottoman/Turkish state has tried to apply throughout the history:) You make it sound like we wanted to stay for five centuries under opression while if you knew anything about the Cold war,its well known that the whole thing was ended by the Soviet Union itself and this applies to all of eastern Europe at once, not just Bulgaria. As for the EU,I hope everybody can be oppresed that way... No you are right. I am trying to say the same thing. Thank God it was the Soviet Union to collapse by itself. Otherwise you would have never complained about it. As you didn't in the case of Ottomans. Thank God Ottoman empire started collapsing by itself. Olny then you started thinking about "liberation" with the help of Russian agents. You belived that they can take better care of you. But now you balme them, too. If a day comes when you get "liberated" from EU as well you wont' hesitate to balme them, too. Shouldn't you guys stop for a second a try to take some of the balme to yourself as well. After all it is nobody else's job to take well care of you except you yourself. Even a baby knows that if he doesn't cry nobody would give him milk. And yet it is his mommy to do that not his neighbor's. It is a pitty to see that all of your national awareness wasa simple act of reaction against Ottoman "yoke". It only served to convince you that you deserved "the liberation". But unfortunatelly ended there. Couldn't sustain itself for any other national goal...
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Post by bb681 on Mar 5, 2008 12:02:33 GMT -5
ok first of all, our entering into the EU is voluntary and is even a result of some compromises on our side for various issues.Also people still have mixed feelings about the EU so its definitely not a case of blind slavery/obeying. Now if you want to go into the phylosophical subject of what freedom for an individual really means, its out of context.
In regards to the Soviet Union, it had its enemies and many people(including myself) are glad that it no longer exists but unlike the Ottoman occupation(which was also more tangible), one can come across people that actually feel nostalgic about it.
I know you are trying to equalise the expansional policy of the Ottomans, Soviets and the EU but paralel cannot be drawn.
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Post by pagane on Mar 5, 2008 12:12:39 GMT -5
We love you, Yahac. Not as much as the Ottoman empire but you are getting closer and closer. You are simply irresistable with all those brilliant advices how we should live and think, who to respect and who not to etc, etc.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Mar 5, 2008 14:18:21 GMT -5
No you are right. I am trying to say the same thing. Thank God it was the Soviet Union to collapse by itself. Otherwise you would have never complained about it. As you didn't in the case of Ottomans. Thank God Ottoman empire started collapsing by itself. Olny then you started thinking about "liberation" with the help of Russian agents. You belived that they can take better care of you. But now you balme them, too. If a day comes when you get "liberated" from EU as well you wont' hesitate to balme them, too. Shouldn't you guys stop for a second a try to take some of the balme to yourself as well. After all it is nobody else's job to take well care of you except you yourself. Even a baby knows that if he doesn't cry nobody would give him milk. And yet it is his mommy to do that not his neighbor's. It is a pitty to see that all of your national awareness wasa simple act of reaction against Ottoman "yoke". It only served to convince you that you deserved "the liberation". But unfortunatelly ended there. Couldn't sustain itself for any other national goal... First of all, obviously u really dont know anything about EU, dont u? Its just some lies u ve read from an incompetent "newspaper" I guess. Have u ever read the Threaty establishing an European Community? Do u know what the institutions of the Eurpopean Community and European Union are? Do u know how they take those decisions? And if u have read this information u ll know that there isnt master and a slave. That we are all part of the decision making, that Bulgaria and any other country in the EU have its voice and saying. Do we use it? Thats another question. EU is totally different thing than a federal state. Its something like a federal organization but the Council of Ministers (main body, ministerst of Member States) and European Parliament (representatives of the european people) are those that adopt the acts (directives and reglaments). In them the member state have enough power to protect its interest. Have we lost some soverenity? U bet, but its voluntary, its a sacrifise for achieving a common european goal. And if we look how the EU membership "affected" the old members (Greece, Spain, Ireland) I really dont think any Bulgarian should be worried. Actually obviously your politicians think the same since they are trying their best to join EU. Are they searching for new masters? I though USA suited u already. I can go on about the positives of an EU membership but is it really nesesary? I dont wanna sound like a lecturer, I would advise u to read for youself what EU is really about. Its a sacrife of sovereignity in certain areas (where EU have exclusive competencies) but the goals really worth it (they are pointed out I think in art. 6 of the Threaty establishing European Union). As for Ottoman Empire: it has nothing to do with the EU. The countries were in the empire against their will, they didnt take part in decision making, their citizens werent even citizens of the empire but a raya, the taxes were different for muslims/christians, there were killings of chsitians, the law was different to the muslim/non-muslim. And thats just the beggining. Please wake up and see that tnx to this empire the Bolkans are backwardish place. U brought lesser culture, ruined the buildings, the libraries, killed the nobility, supressed the people. It doesnt sound like EU to me.
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Post by bb681 on Mar 5, 2008 18:41:08 GMT -5
"Please wake up and see that tnx to this empire the Balkans are backwardish place."
ok, on that one, I would not put the blame(or at least not the whole one) on the Ottomans when it comes to the present. The Balkan nations did indeed start from a lower ground during their liberation in the 19th century but the current state of backwardness has quite more to do with the Cold war status quo.
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Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 7, 2008 6:29:52 GMT -5
Wonder why then Czehs, Slovaks, Hungarians, DDR or Polish did not become backwards?? What about Macenonian and Serbian ppl (who were free compaired to Bulgarians)?! They are as much backwards too.
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Post by bb681 on Mar 7, 2008 9:13:23 GMT -5
One day you may get to learn.
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Rhezus
Moderator
DERZA STURIA TRAUS
Posts: 1,674
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Post by Rhezus on Mar 7, 2008 9:36:04 GMT -5
What to learn.. new excuses why some ppl are so backwards?!
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