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Post by depletedreasons on Apr 3, 2008 6:04:47 GMT -5
Utrinski Vesnik: Bulgaria Is Not a True Friend of MacedoniaPublished on: 03.04.2008, 12:38 Author: international.news.bg One truth should be said aloud and it is that Bulgaria is not part of the group of sincere and true friends of Macedonia, claims the Skopje journalist Viktor Tsvetanovski in his article “Sofia offensive against Macedonia” in the Macedonian newspaper “Utrinski vesnik”, informs netinfo.bg. This conclusion of the author is based on the content of the book “The Bulgarian policy toward Macedonia”, presented in Sofia by the spokesman of the Bulgaria ministry of foreign affairs Dimitar Tsanchev. According to Tsvetanovski “only the naïve people could believe that the anti-Macedonian slogans which are proclaimed every day in Bulgaria are done by the angry nationalists led by Krassimir Karakachanov. What we get from Sofia every day is more than ordinary nationalistic passion”, claims Tsvetanovski. The author finds it “obvious that Sofia is preparing a full-scale offensive to force the Macedonian state to kneel down, claiming loudly its aspirations to the Macedonian past”. Arguing that in the dispute about the name of Macedonia Bulgaria has taken the Greek side, the newspaper expresses its discontent of the firm Bulgarian demand Macedonia to fulfill more and more conditions if it wants to enter NATO and the EU. All these conditions were connected to demands for rejection of the “Macedonian past” and the “Macedonian heroes” and for their proclaiming as Bulgarians. What Bulgaria now wants from Macedonia cannot be named in other way than classic blackmail and an attempt in hard times for Macedonia to “benefit more”. This, however, is something that the Macedonian politicians don't get and “continue to take photos with their Bulgarian colleagues in front of monuments of Macedonian revolutionaries”, where the subtext is important. According to Tsvetanovski, Sofia insisted on this photos in order to prove that the Macedonian past has been Bulgarian. international.ibox.bg/news/id_1043614556
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Post by chalkedon on Apr 3, 2008 6:16:36 GMT -5
Good job my Bulgaria !!
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Post by pagane on Apr 3, 2008 6:35:08 GMT -5
This guy must be living on some other planet. It is Skopje who produce the everyday idiocies, insults, history thefts and even persecution of people who dare to proclaim their Bulgarian consciousness.
If we wanted that, we could do it easily several years ago when Bulgaria was the only way for fyromian goods due to Greek and Serb embargo. And fyrom have no past - it is part of the Bulgarian history.
What is so surprising? No country should live in complete lie about its past, fyrom is trying to falsify everything, so they have to pay. And besides our huge problems with Greece in the past, this country proved to be a real supporter of Bulgaria in the most important moments in our recent history and a big investor. I see no reason not to support them, enough with this romantic feelings toward fyrom.
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Post by bb681 on Apr 3, 2008 6:51:59 GMT -5
Maybe thats true, maybe not but what was known for ages is that "Utrinski vesnik" has been anti-bulgarian media to their bones. Therefore news about BG would only be surprising if they were to say something more positive than that.
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Post by Ivanov on Apr 3, 2008 12:05:35 GMT -5
Congratulations to the Greeks for their firm stand against the Fyromian idiots! We should follow their example.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Apr 3, 2008 12:37:07 GMT -5
i agree totally. i am really for a balkan eu close cooperation between greece bulgaria and romania. maybe even hungary should be part of it. those countries should have often meetings and try to finance international projects with eu help. they should coordinate their international positions to really have a say. as for macos i am all for greeks vetoing their ass, they steal their and our history, when its obvious they were bulgarians till 1945. i am all for them being whoever they feel they are right now, however they have to find other people to justify their nation, not alex the great, samuel of bulgaria, yane sandanski etc.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Apr 3, 2008 16:46:35 GMT -5
Haha... Were they also Bulgarians before 681AD?! Or you say they were Greek before they were Bulgarians...
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Post by pagane on Apr 3, 2008 17:02:38 GMT -5
Were we Bulgarians before 681 AD? Just a rhetoric question, not to mention that this year is completely wrong.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Apr 4, 2008 3:01:05 GMT -5
Aha.. were we?! And which year is right?? Seems much is wrong with bulgars..
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Post by Ivanov on Apr 4, 2008 3:13:27 GMT -5
Tempora incognita of the early Bulgarian history’, Dr Atanas Stamatov SOURCES AND INTERPRETATIONS We have selected only these documentary sources in which the Bulgars are explicitly mentioned by their ethnicon. The cases of apparent archaisms or where the Bulgars appear under the name of a foreign ruling people, were usually discarded, apart from few exceptions when there are secondary data pointing to the Bulgar involvement on the events. 354 AD - The name of the Bulgars appear in the Anonymous Latin chronograph, which was based on an older Greek original and is preserved in two copies. One of the copies, listing events up to 234 AD, does not mention the Bulgars. The other copy, dated by Momsen, A.Kunik, B. Rosen to 334 AD enlists the Bulgars among the Semitic people and their progenitors: "Ziezi ex quo Bulgares" - Ziezi, of whom are the Bulgars. In order to circumvent the difficulties in explaining this early Bulgar appearance in the Latin historiography, most historians subscribe to the explanation offered by Gootschimdt, that the Bulgars were included only in the latest, 539 AD, copy of the chronograph. Read on, here: members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/armen/tempora_incognita.htm
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Apr 4, 2008 3:24:51 GMT -5
I would say that nowadays Bulgarians appeared even later, after the reign of Boris I. We are result of mixing between Thracians (Bulgaria:Bessi, Mizi etc., FYROM: Peonians), Slavs (in Bg and FYROM) and Bulgars (Bulgaria: the Bulgars led by Asparuch, FYROM: the Bulgars led by Kuber). Up till that mixing happened those three people were different. Why is so hard for you to get it Rhezus? Of course we have Thracian desent, but not only this. We were formed under Boris, when those three people got one faith, one state, one language and turned into what we are today: Bulgarians. Fyrom Bulgarians were always part of our people, up till 1945. Every single one of their heroes had in one way or other declared he is Bulgarian starting with Ioan Radomir, Samuels nephew.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Apr 4, 2008 6:23:52 GMT -5
So Macedones are history thiefs, because Greek say that?!
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Post by pagane on Apr 4, 2008 6:26:56 GMT -5
Not only Greeks, we say that too. With the exception of you in this forum.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Apr 4, 2008 6:36:32 GMT -5
So Macedones are history thiefs, because Greek say that?! Not because the Greeks say so, but because it is obvious by the historic data. Of course Macedonia was mentioned, but u have to be stupid to think it was something more than a geographical term (almost always it was mentioned with Thrace). Up till that point (9-10 century) Bulgarians as people were formed and fyroms were refered to as Bulgarians in every written document from the medievil times. We dont need the Greek to see the obvious.
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arize
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Post by arize on Apr 4, 2008 14:09:41 GMT -5
"So Macedones are history thiefs, because Greek say that?! "
I have always presumed Rhezus was a Macedonian that talks constant trash about Bulgaria/Bulgarians, I wonder if it is true.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Apr 6, 2008 7:40:32 GMT -5
So Macedones are history thiefs, because Greek say that?! Not because the Greeks say so, but because it is obvious by the historic data. Of course Macedonia was mentioned, but u have to be stupid to think it was something more than a geographical term (almost always it was mentioned with Thrace). Up till that point (9-10 century) Bulgarians as people were formed and fyroms were refered to as Bulgarians in every written document from the medievil times. We dont need the Greek to see the obvious. Haha.. Just an example, what is mentionned about Bulgaria or Greece?! What was antient Macedonia.. "Alexander III the Great, the King of Macedonia and conqueror of the Persian Empire is considered one of the greatest military geniuses of all times. He was inspiration for later conquerors such as Hannibal the Carthaginian, the Romans Pompey and Caesar, and Napoleon. Alexander was born in 356 BC in Pella, the ancient capital of Macedonia. He was son of Philip II, King of Macedonia, and Olympias, the princess of neighboring Epirus. He spent his childhood watching his father transforming Macedonia into a great military power, winning victory after victory on the battlefields throughout the Balkans. In 340, when Philip assembled a large Macedonian army and invaded Thrace, he left his 16 years old son with the power to rule Macedonia in his absence as regent, which shows that even at such young age Alexander was recognized as quite capable. But as the Macedonian army advanced deep into Thrace, the Thracian tribe of Maedi bordering north-eastern Macedonia rebelled and posed a danger to the country. Alexander assembled an army, led it against the rebels, and with swift action defeated the Maedi, captured their stronghold, and renamed it after himself to Alexandropolis.
Two years later in 338 BC, Philip gave his son a commanding post among the senior generals as the Macedonian army invaded Greece. At the Battle of Chaeronea the Greeks were defeated and Alexander displayed his bravery by destroying the elite Greek force, the Theban Secret Band. Some ancient historians recorded that the Macedonians won the battle thanks to his bravery."historyofmacedonia.org/AncientMacedonia/AlexandertheGreat.htmlWhy can't you accept Macedons were non Greek or Bulgarians?! They will always be the pain in your as.. non Bulgarian, non Greek.
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Post by Arxileas on Apr 6, 2008 8:15:00 GMT -5
Rhezus tell me, can you read what this says Only true Macedonians can read this.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Apr 6, 2008 8:49:29 GMT -5
Rhezus tell me, can you read what this says Only true Macedonians can read this.You Greek, always been exited to write "history" on stones. Still find stones to write, who and what is Greek?! You've made even a commercial, where it was written: " Come to Greece, the country of Orpheus". ;D
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Apr 6, 2008 8:57:18 GMT -5
Rhezus, I am amazed by your unbulgarian conciousness! What are u really? Are u sure you are indeed Bulgarian and not Turkish? Are u just pointed out as "sources" the fyrom "historic" site? Do u know how absurd that looks? Why are u going to prehistory when u have to look in fyrom 100 years ago. What would you find there then?
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Apr 6, 2008 10:52:50 GMT -5
Rhezus, I am amazed by your unbulgarian conciousness! What are u really? Are u sure you are indeed Bulgarian and not Turkish? Are u just pointed out as "sources" the fyrom "historic" site? Do u know how absurd that looks? Why are u going to prehistory when u have to look in fyrom 100 years ago. What would you find there then? Oo.. am I Turk now?! Somebody already've said I was Macedonian.. Why should I look for Macedonia 100 ago only?! Shall we not go longer than 100 yrs - to understand history? You've said they did not have a country. You've even said: " Fyrom Bulgarians were always part of our people, up till 1945". "Always", "Bulgarians"... somehow that doesn't sound too good. If some feel like they originally are Bulgarians, they'd take every oppurtunity to show it. Ask Macedonians if they feel like real Bulgarians? (And don't blame it on the Serbs again).
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