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Post by terroreign on Feb 7, 2008 15:20:38 GMT -5
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Post by radovic on Feb 7, 2008 16:08:48 GMT -5
The latin-rite and byzantine-rite did not exist in the 9th century.
He was crowned by such a name in 1077. But do you know what the doclean King's official title was King of Doclea, Dalmatia, Rascia, Bosnia.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 7, 2008 20:06:13 GMT -5
The latin-rite did exist, for it was Christianity from rome.
You don't know the title of the First Doclean King, so I'll let you know.
King Mihailo's official title was as follows : "Michaeli Sclavorum Regi"
Although he was known also as simply "Rex Sclavorum".
Now the schism occured in 1054, at that time the independent state of Doclea embraced Catholicism.
"At 1054, the [[Great Schism]] occurs and Doclea becomes the most eastern borderland of the suzeiranity of the [[Roman Catholic Church]]."
While the tribal states of Bosnia and Raska were Byzantine vassals. Adhering to the Eastern Orthodox Church.
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Post by radovic on Feb 8, 2008 10:23:22 GMT -5
The latin-rite did exist, for it was Christianity from rome. The latin-rite did not exist in the 9th century. The main difference that led to the shcism started in the 10th century. Latin/Byzantine-rite did not formally exist until the great schism. No. That was the title rome bestowed upon him.All the Vojislavjevic were in Duklja crowned by the title King of Doclea, Dalmatia, Rascia, Bosnia. Wrong. The fitst Dukljan king was crowned in 1077. Meaning you did not embrace Catholicism at the great schism. Not only that but this reaffirms my earlier quote: This period was useful for Duklja. While its eastern borders were used as a demarcational zone between the Pope and the Ecumenical Patriarch, the rulers of Duklja used the Latin side to gain independence from the Byzantine, but enforced Eastern-rite and schismatic Orthodoxy so as not to be controlled by the Catholic west. Throughout the 11th century Doclea's population were classified as being Serbs. I don't know where you came up with such b.s. information. But Bosnia was never under Byzantine vassalage. At the time of the great schism under Catholic control. Hercegovina and a very small section of southern Bosnia (maybe 10% of Bosnia) became Orthodox by the time of Tsar Dusan.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 8, 2008 15:45:05 GMT -5
And thats what he was known by, there is no evidence to the contrary.
Wrong, Duklja was an independent state before the schism, and Prince Mihailo(wasn't named king by rome yet) embraced Catholicism over the Doclean land.
That quote is from wikipedia and is paraphrasing/hypothesizing by some anon.
I use quotes from Historians and documents from the Roman Empire:
And this, proves my general point.
A major part was, north-eastern bosnia (including present day sarajevo), the rest was croatian.
Only the croatian parts.
Too bad try again next time.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Feb 8, 2008 18:42:15 GMT -5
radovic , there was such a thing as the latin-rite and the greek-rite before the schism. even though there was no orthodox and catholic then, there did exist a cultural division within the church. there was the latin orientated (of rome) , and greek orientated (of byzantium) churches.
also historical records state that duklja was christians of the latin-rite (which would be considered after the schism as roman catholic) .
raskians were of the greek-rite.
its true that nemanja was born in duklja, and he was baptised in the latin-rite church. his mother was a dukljanka of the latin-rite church, but nemanja's father was from raska, and he was of the greek-rite.
it makes sense that when nemanja then went back to raska to become king, he was re-baptised in the greek-rite church of byzantium.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Feb 8, 2008 18:59:49 GMT -5
actually i'm pretty sure that bijela hrvatska (bosnia, central & north dalmatia, lika, rijeka, istra ) , and panonska hrvatska (slavonia, sisak area, karlovac area, zagreb area, varazdin area) was all under byzantine juristriction before avar invasion. this area between the drina and the adriatic has been swapping hands betwen the western and eastern roman empires. before avar invasion it was under byzantine control, and thats why the croatian peoples were asked at the invitation of constantinople to settle this area if we can get rid of the avars.
terro, actually northeast bosnia was first part of the croatian kingdom when croatians settled there, but later on it came back under byzantine juristriction, when the croatian kingdom fragmented from internal divisions, and in consequence of that a new croatian kingdom was formed within that territory, ie. the kingdom of bosnia, named after the bosna river that flowed thrugh the area. also sarajevo never was under byzantine juristriction of the croats settled the area. sarajevo was an integral part of the croatian kindom, and in that time the town was known as vrhbosna. even gorazde was part of the croatian kingdom on the west side of the drina.
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Post by radovic on Feb 8, 2008 20:11:05 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure they weren't. At least they weren't in the time Duklja and other Slavic states were organized Byzantine influenced in the Balkans had receded back across the Drina.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 11, 2008 4:33:33 GMT -5
Very certain you're wrong radovic, like most of the time.
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Post by radovic on Feb 11, 2008 10:43:41 GMT -5
radovic , there was such a thing as the latin-rite and the greek-rite before the schism. even though there was no orthodox and catholic then, there did exist a cultural division within the church. there was the latin orientated (of rome) , and greek orientated (of byzantium) churches. also historical records state that duklja was christians of the latin-rite (which would be considered after the schism as roman catholic) . raskians were of the greek-rite. its true that nemanja was born in duklja, and he was baptised in the latin-rite church. his mother was a dukljanka of the latin-rite church, but nemanja's father was from raska, and he was of the greek-rite. it makes sense that when nemanja then went back to raska to become king, he was re-baptised in the greek-rite church of byzantium. Nemanja's father might of been from Raska. But his father was not "byzantine-rite." Nemanja's son Sava was the first Orthodox Nemanjic. furthermore. I can only see that coastal areas in Montenegro were latin-rite. The interior of montenegro (i.e. Duklja/Zeta/"Old montenegro" -- whatever you want to call it) was Orthodox. The Dukljan leadership might have been latin, but the population was not.; (Like I said before the same case exissted in Raska with the leadership being un-orthodox). The Dukljans used alliances with Rome to secure independence from Byzantium, but they weren't latin-rite.
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Post by radovic on Feb 11, 2008 10:44:18 GMT -5
Very certain you're wrong radovic, like most of the time. I'm certain you are wrong. Because i know your a historical revisionist.
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