donnie
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Post by donnie on May 10, 2008 5:51:36 GMT -5
Ali Pasha Tepelena was half greek i think Jo, po e ngatërron me bashkëshrtën e tij, Vasiliqinë, e cila ishte një vashë greke. Por meqë ra fjala, une diku kam lexuar se nëna e Aliut ishte sllave (bullgare?), por s'di a qëndron kjo. A e di kush se prej nga ishte nëna tij?
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Post by epiroti on May 10, 2008 9:29:29 GMT -5
when someone spoke to Ali about Machiavelli's book 'The Prince' (a true masterpiece in politics), he replied by saying that he didn't need anyone's advice in governing his land.
What a moron. And what he achieved was simply by luck?! He learned all the tricks of the game the hard way, by starting as a brigand and moving up all the way to a Pasha. In a way, that makes him superior because he discovered principles by himself, without being taught. If he trully refused to read 'The Prince', perhaps that was a mistake, but it hardly makes him a moron. Stop talking crap Anittas!
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Post by julius on May 10, 2008 12:26:39 GMT -5
His mother is said to be from Kardhiq Donnie. Her husband died and she was trying to protect her fortune. Thats why they raped her.
Her name was Hanko or Hamko. It doesnt feel slavic at all...Also they say she was beautiful, there is even a song to her:
Hanko kur shkoje mbi varre te vdekurit i ngjalle te gjallet i vdiqe fare.
I even doubt Vasiliki was pure greek. Her surname was "Kitzo". And she was from a village near there (Plisivica near Filiates), in Epirus.
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Post by Toskaliku on May 10, 2008 12:45:36 GMT -5
Well, he kind of didnt. The man made his realm into one of the most prosperous zones in the empire. The kind of productivity was unheard of. The only weakness was that much of his wealth was taken and given to the useless and poor zones in Anatolia. Had he broken away completely, he would have been able to lax his heavy taxation policy, which would have significantly eased the life of the Epirot peasant (whether Greek or Alb).
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Post by jerryspringer on May 11, 2008 7:35:48 GMT -5
He was still a moron. You don't act arrogantly when it comes to literature and philosophy. He should have read the book. It's a good book. Greater men than him read it, such as Frederick the Great of Prussia. Frederick was a greater leader than that fatty and his legacy gave way to Germany becoming unified and a power to be recognized with. Ali was a typical Balkan moron with high ambitions. He achieved some success which mostly benefited him and a small circle of people.
I say you stick with Skanderbeg.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on May 11, 2008 10:24:14 GMT -5
When your bag of great men is nearly empty you nourish what you have.
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Post by Toskaliku on May 11, 2008 10:38:05 GMT -5
At least half of ours arent derived from ppl of a different ethnic origin...
Now buzz of troll
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Post by bordura on May 11, 2008 11:17:58 GMT -5
Moron? definition of Moron: A stupid person; a dolt.
hm you might have to chose the right or the fitting word better maybe. He was ruthless, but in no way a moron. If he was moron why in the hell Napoleon Bonaparte will have a permanent representative on Ali's court? Russian Empire too had a permanent representative on his court, British Empire and Venice also. He was the only local leader of the time to had been able generating an attitude toward him from powers as hes territory was an independent state. Sublime Port was pissed that in Ali's court European Powers had what is equivalent of today's ambassadors. It showed that he was a pretty smart player and was important enough to compete the Sublime Port with parallel foreign services. Building a parallel foreign service with the High Porte, needed not just balls but brains too!
so again what part of him was moron?
Napoleon advised Pukeville; Be carefull, if you think Ali has not tricked you yet, then that is the very sign he has tricked you allready.
Now about sticking with Skanderbeg, well we are not in the process of sticking or unsticking. We just talking and shearing info about a very central figure of that time in Balkan and that of a larger area. The fact the he was Albanian is the reason of us talking about him.
It is like telling romanians do not discus about Kont Drakula because he was a moron ;D
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on May 11, 2008 11:53:51 GMT -5
Ouch! That hurts Melty.....
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Post by jerryspringer on May 11, 2008 12:41:25 GMT -5
My reply to bordura:
The ignorant part of him, as well as the cruel part. The definition of moron can also mean foolish.
You can discuss Ali, as you have done many times before. Just admit that he was a moron. Dracula was a moron, also, but of a different kind.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 11, 2008 13:36:13 GMT -5
If he was a moron, I doubt he'd be able to turn from a brigand to the head of the Ioannina province, challenging even the Sultan while at it.
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Post by bordura on May 11, 2008 13:58:18 GMT -5
wow anittas your into something no one could see before. Ali was foolish, idiotic, moron!!!
He was after power, cruel, ruthless but no one that studied his life achievement's or rise to power called him that.
In contrary he was intelligent, now it is another story his intentions and goals. Just a last note, he did exactly what Machiavelli preached: the goal justifies the means.
was Machiavelli a moron too for you?
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Post by jerryspringer on May 11, 2008 15:42:32 GMT -5
I'm sure that Ali had qualities that are to be admired by any person that seeks to climb the ladder of power, but let's not inflate his character. He was a governor who turned his faction into a regional power. I get it. He was a challenge to the Porte when the latter was unable to deal with him. I get it.
But his other bad qualities makes him a moron, regardless of his skills and achievements. You guys praise him as if he was your savior. I ask you: what good of a legacy did he leave you? Some ruins in Albania? The revival of Greek culture? That was in limited amounts and would've occurred anyway.
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Post by Toskaliku on May 11, 2008 16:05:51 GMT -5
To me he is a great man because by destroying Voskopoje he made Korca the dominant city in that region and expelled foreign occupying elements that predominated the other city. Korca is an almost entirely Albanian city, with Vlach elements that are deeply ingrained in Albanian culture.
I think Albania needs more men like him right now, to finish the job.
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Post by jerryspringer on May 11, 2008 17:53:35 GMT -5
Yeah, yeah---that sort of provokation posts are somehow old, childish, and plain out of fashion...just like the time when I pretended to be provoked, was. The guy abused women, raped them, and tortured them. He did the same to other civilians. And he was fat and ugly. What more do you want? Okay, so he slaughtered some Vlachs and you like that. Congrats...
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on May 11, 2008 19:13:48 GMT -5
I guess Toski is praising men like Slobodan.....
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Post by Toskaliku on May 11, 2008 19:19:48 GMT -5
Not similar at all, notice I said foreign occupying elements: Greeks and Vlachs. ;D Plus, I dont praise men like Milosevic. He was simply an opportunist, a man who used the gullibility and stupidity of a people to garner power for himself. I want a leader who loves his people... I praise those men.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on May 11, 2008 22:39:17 GMT -5
Korca is half vlach
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donnie
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Post by donnie on May 12, 2008 9:17:56 GMT -5
You seen him personally?
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Post by Toskaliku on May 12, 2008 10:14:02 GMT -5
Perhaps so, though I dont believe so, but none speak it.
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