donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 30, 2012 10:01:09 GMT -5
No Rex, you didn't delete anything. Watch 0:25 of that last video you posted. Priceless ;D
Seems masochism is an integral part of the Serbian psyche. Not only do they celebrate a defeat some 623 years ago, they're willing to travel all the way from Belgrade or Bosnia to Kosova just to get humiliated by police and undressed like little bitches.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 6, 2012 10:05:59 GMT -5
"But that still won't help Greece which depends on outside forces to save it from a disorderly default .. and probably on the same forces for recovery." ^^^ same holds for kosovo and albania. (if we exclude the word "recovery" lol) Neither of those countries are in a sovereign debt crisis you repulsive c*nt. You could say they depend on outside forces for aid and development, but not that they are facing an imminent threat of default on accumulated debt.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 6, 2012 7:59:41 GMT -5
Novi embodies the anithesis of anything intellectual and academic, his argumentation is in line with that of Pyrros; inconsistent and prone to unfalsifiability and above all self-serving. Combine this with a total lack of knowledge in any of the relevant scientific fields of this discussion, in particular historical linguistics, as well as his proverbial stubbornness, and you have a brick wall that's incapable of processing anything.. other than what "it" wants to hear. At its best, this is done through a sloppy work of selective quotations, like that of Eric Hamp .. who never entertained the "theory" of our arrival as late as the 11th century. At its worst, he does it with completely unsubstantiated claims such as "we named all of your mountains and rivers"..
Novi is a member since day one, and he hasn't learned anything, quite the contrary, he's gotten dumber. He is incapable of mentioning any credible and non-partial source that currently supports the Caucasian theory of our origins. It's because a Western "conspiracy" has hijacked the local discourse and brainwashed everyone. That sums everything about Novi, possible the dumbest creature to ever visit these forums. The likes of axristo could atleast excuse themselves with their poor command of the English language. Novi is a monoglot, he only knows English and doesn't have this excuse.
In conclusion, my suggestion is we stop conversing with this fool because there is no point. Save the arguments for someone that actualy listens.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 6, 2012 3:58:18 GMT -5
The way Tsipras is talking and giving promises one could think it's only a lack of "political will" in Greece that is blocking a preferable solution to the current crisis. The real power to change actually lies in Germany and its government's fixation with austerity and dread for inflation in a deflationary crisis. Merkel and her government's primary goal is to win a re-election, and this entails not stepping on the toes of German public opinion. And the German opinion is fixed on the notion that structural reform and austerity is the key to Greece's recovery - this is what Germany did afterall in the aftermath of its union; brutally hold down wages and increase German competitiveness. Only Greece isn't Germany.
George Soros recently wrote an article where he projects a slowdown in German economy in the fall, and by that time it will be even more difficult to convince German public opinion of extending or furthering EU's responsibility for Greece (EU in this case means the Bundesbank). Tsipras can therefore speak of fairytales all he wants of revoking the current agreement AND keeping the euro. Its beyond Greek hands now.
Austerity, historically and currently in Greece, is mostly about slashing public expenditures which usually means social services which the least affluent depend on. Taxing the rich could be seen as sharing the burden, esp. since rich people are those who capitalized the most on the Greek bubble, since they were the ones with the greatest access to cheap credit. Its only fair they should experience some austerity too.
But that still won't help Greece which depends on outside forces to save it from a disorderly default .. and probably on the same forces for recovery.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 6, 2012 3:17:27 GMT -5
this is suicidal... when USA leaves, the albos will resume sucking slavic c**ks again. Like you're currently doing? No thanks, never did never will.
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Post by donnie on May 29, 2012 3:45:05 GMT -5
German Girl Held Captive For 8 Years; Milenko And Slavojka Marinkovic Arrested In Bosnia Bosnian police say they rescued a 19-year-old German woman who was held against her will for eight years, forced to eat pig feed and pull her captors around in a horse cart. Milenko and Slavojka Marinkovic were arrested in the village of Karavlasi after a neighbor tipped off cops that the two had abused the unidentified girl for years, according to The Local. "They kept her locked up, neither allowing her contact with other people, nor to go to school," police spokesman Admir Arnautovic told reporters. "They subjected her to inhumane treatment and torture." Police released few details after the May 17 arrest, but AFP spoke to the whistle-blowing neighbor, who said he saw the girl eating pumpkin and corn grain -- the same meal the family's pigs ate. Another time, the neighbor said he witnessed the couple force the girl to pull them around on a horse cart. "They put her in place of the horse and were laughing," Sead Makalic told AFP. Makalic had reportedly tried to alert police before, but said the couple hid the girl well. The victim was found in a forest in poor physical and psychological condition, the Herald Sun reported. There are allegations that she was sexually abused. The girl's parents reportedly brought her from Germany to marry Milenko Marinkovic, in a sham marriage designed to help him obtain German residency. The mother was allegedly in the village at the time the couple was arrested. It's yet unclear whether charges will be filed against her. The victim was taken to a safe house and given medical treatment. www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/28/german-girl-held-captive-made-to-work-8-years_n_1550582.html
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Post by donnie on May 26, 2012 20:20:18 GMT -5
There is smth we've forgotten to mention here.
Unlike in our case, where the collaborationist element came about as a result of our precarious political position, fascism in Serbia was homegrown and preceded the Nazi invasion. Just take a look at the Jugoslovenski narodni pokret (Yugoslav National Movement) or "Zbor" founded by D. Ljotic, an admirer of Hitler, in 1935. Its ideology was inspired by Italian fascism and German National Socialist ideas, and it later also formed the armed group of Srpski dobrovoljaèki korpus, its military arm that assisted the Nazis in persecuting the Reich's enemies, including Serbia's Jewry.
Serbia was also a pioneer in legislation that discriminated the country's Jews almost a century before WWII, in the 19th century. One such example was the creation of ghettos. The extremely high rate of Jewish deaths in Serbia is in retrospect not so surprising.
Therefore, it's highly amusing and bewildering having Serbs teach us about the subject and criticize our role during WWII. Then again, the fact that Novi does this is hardly surprising, he's dumber than a mule and is only worth using as a packhorse.
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Post by donnie on May 3, 2012 4:11:38 GMT -5
The Albanians Henry Skene Journal of the Ethnological Society of London (1848-1856), Vol. 2. ( 1850). You couldn't find anything more up to date? ;D
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Post by donnie on Apr 1, 2012 6:48:59 GMT -5
Hey Paul, I think we've been quite accommodating and generous, taking time and effort to present why the theories concerning our Illyrian or Thracian origins are the most plausible. Perhaps it's your turn to do the same, present your ideas on why you're a sceptic or at least present the reasons/evidence for considering an extra-Balkanian origin of our language.
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Post by donnie on Mar 31, 2012 10:42:59 GMT -5
Which are these?
I gave you one; Bushtrica!
You haven't understood what I said. The pre-shift loans I mentioned are also evident in toponyms, including Bushtrica which is a Slav placename, for a local river (it basically means swift, clear river in Slav). I didn't say Bistrica is a pre-Slav toponym, quite the opposite. What I said is that south Slavs pronounced it differently before the 9th century AD, smth in the line of Bystrica. Because our ancestors have preserved the form Bushtrica, it means our ancestors were in contact with the Slavs who named the river before the 9th century AD, contradicting the theory that we arrived in the Balkans in the 1000s or 1100s.
This is sth well etablished among professional linguists, including Russian linguist Vladimir Orel.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 31, 2012 6:29:55 GMT -5
No it's not. It's established among scholars that all Slav loanwords in our language derive from south Slav languages, either Serbocroatian or Bulgarian. And perhaps you also missed the part where I said this pre-shift evidence is also found in local toponymy, as in the Balkans, not in Russia or Poland. Bushtrica, by the Black Drin, is such a toponym. This means our ancestors were present and in contact with local Slavs in the territories around the Black Drin before the 9th century AD.
It was pronounced smth like *bystra, later rendered into bistra in south Slav dialects. The loanword bushtër in our language and toponyms like Bushtrica suggest we were in contact with the local Slavs ever since their first arrival.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 30, 2012 6:37:36 GMT -5
Examples of pre-shift loans include words like kulë from Slav *kyla 'hernia', posullë from Slav *posyla 'bill, letter', llukë from Slav *lyko 'bast'. Compare these to a modern South Slav way of saying them (Serbian), namely kila or lika, you have a shift that went y--i, and if we'd loaned these words after the shift, they would've looked like this; kilë, posillë, llikë etc. There are also onomastic evidence, like the toponym Bushtrica, which otherwise would've been Bistrica.
This conflicts with the Serb theory that we came from Caucasus in the tenth century AD.
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Post by donnie on Mar 29, 2012 4:49:42 GMT -5
Exactly, north of it, as in Illyria proper. And our language does contain an indigenous maritime vocabulary, though it is admittedly small. But that doesn't really mean much. Our ancestors might have lived in the hinterland and been isolated for a sufficiently long period to not have much or any contact with the sea, but enough with local towns where they would've sold their cheese and furs. You don't have to go much beyond Malësi for this t have happened.
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Post by donnie on Mar 29, 2012 4:45:41 GMT -5
^ Donnie, you have no crediblity here at all, your VERSION of history revolves around Noel Malcolm. I've read at times your take on even Albanian history when your speaking to your co-patriots and its imensely hilarious that your co-patriots are nodding their stupid heads and agreeing with every single fable you post in front of their eyes. I've now even seen you use the word contagion, man, how does that siptar head of yours manage to store a word in such limited available space, donnie? ?? "Novi in particular was very vocal about this and the chaos that would follow." Lets wait and see Donnie, the end of the world is not near. You surely have taken a turn for the worse, sounding more retarded for every post you make. That's a feat even for you. And don't digress; this has nothing to do with Malcolm and everything to do with your list of "secessionist movements" being stupid and your prediction being so far off it isn't even funny. OK, it's a little funny. Hi Pyrro, see you're sucking Serbian d!ck as always. I knew there was smth suspiciously gay about you, with all that talk of lubricating asses, gang-banging and rape-plays and what not. I must say though, you're precisely the kind of ambassador I wish for Serbia, honestly.
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Post by donnie on Mar 28, 2012 19:01:23 GMT -5
The list is as stupid as Novi and Pyrro combined. It's more of a list of national minorities than secessionist movements. The Sami? I live in Sweden and they make no such noise, their preoccupation is to preserve their heritage and identity, not creating a new state. A better example would've been the Welsh or Scottish in Britain.
This article reminds me of the prescient Serbs warning of contagion following Kosova's secession. Novi in particular was very vocal about this and the chaos that would follow. Nothing happened though. The two most serious secessionist movements, the IRA in Northern Ireland and ETA in Spain, have more or less laid down their weapons and chosen a peaceful and institutionalist approach. The rest barely deserve mention and attempt to achieve their goals within the ramifications of democratic institutions peacefully, not through arms(bcs they aren't being supressed violently).
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Post by donnie on Mar 28, 2012 18:47:17 GMT -5
Just some few notes.
The first one is about the supposed closer ties of Slavic to Thracian than Albanian to Thracian. That list you provided as an illustration for this conclusion is a list of cognates. In order to decode the meaning of words belonging to ancient languages we know little of, linguists use this sort of comparative method to shed light on the matter. It is not necessarily about which of these surviving languages is closer to the language subject to study. Slavic languages, having been isolated from contact with advanced civilisations for much of its early history, were able to preserve a high amount of original non-borrowed words of Indoeuropean extraction, making them useful in these sort of comparative methods. It doesn't mean its closer to Thracian because of it.
Secondly, with regards to ancient toponyms, most Illyrian toponyms are actually composed by single units, not double as in Thracian.
Thirdly, one point often disregarded is that Thracian land was situated south of the Jirecek line, meaning that if Albanian was descended from it, it would have had a far higher degree of ancient Greek loan words than it in fact does. Instead, our language is heavily influenced by Latin, suggesting our ancestors lived north of the line in close contact with Latin-speaking populations leaving the Illyrian option as more plausible. The symbiosis that has been noted from early on by scholars between Albanian and Romanian suggests we must have autochtonous due to the nature of the similarities between these languages.
Fourthly, one method used to pin down the location of our ancestors is by studying ancient toponyms and their forms in Albanian and oither languages. In much of Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia (minus the coast) ancient place-names were eradicated by the marauding Slavs. But in contemporary Albania and other close locations you have several such place-names that have had no intermediation, meaning our ancestors have always been in close proximity to these locations because their evolution from their ancient form to the modern equivalent corresponds with the phonetic rules of our language. Examples include Scodra-->Shkodër, Drinus-->Dri(ni), Ragusium-->Rush, Drivastum-->Drisht, Barbanna-->Buena, Scardona-->Shar, Mathis-->Mati, Isamnus-->Ishëm, etc.
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Post by donnie on Mar 24, 2012 7:01:56 GMT -5
nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishull_i_Lezh%C3%ABsIt is close to the town of Lezhë. As I mentioned earlier, the mountaineers of Shkreli and other clans often led their cattle to the lowlands alongside the Adriatic during winter-time. This was their second home. If this theory is true, then your ancestors most probably came from the village of Dedaj in Shkreli. From there they might've settled close to Lezha and then re-settled in Klezna. This is not impossible since thye would probably have known some fellow clansmen there as the Shkreli clan had winter pastures there as well. And it isn't a big distance as you can see in the map.
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Post by donnie on Mar 24, 2012 6:22:41 GMT -5
That text speaks of the Dedaj family/brotherhood (probably from the village of Dedaj in Shkrel), one branch of which descends from Vuletë Deda, whose descendants live in Gocaj, Sterkuj, the island of Lezha. Then the text mentions some of the families in Gocaj, including those of Gjekë Koleci and Dedë Koleci. In the island of Lezha live the close relatives of these Koleci families.
This sounds like a plausible theory, you mentioned your ancestors wore typical Malsor garb which indeed differed a little from those of Mirdita.
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Origins
Mar 23, 2012 8:27:20 GMT -5
Post by donnie on Mar 23, 2012 8:27:20 GMT -5
Well, if you talk with the elderlies of Klezna, they will (I'm confident) definetely know if they are Shkreli. The reason is that the Catholic northerners are very careful when it comes to genealogy, being able to recount their ancestors many generations back and they usually know which clan they are.
The Shkreli clan which is situated in Malësia e Madhe (literally The Great Highlands) in the vicinity of Shkodra, were a group of people primarily occupied with raising livestock. During summers, they lived in the highlands of Shkrel, and during winters they often moved their entire livestock to the lowlands. These winter settlements were called vërri, and were either situated close to Shkreli or sometimes much farther. It is known that some of these highlanders moved as far south as the Lezhë county, right by Mirdita. Others moved close to the Adriatic, west of Lake Shkodra, where I believe Klezna is situated (the territories of Anamal, Shestan, Kraja etc).
Sometimes if there was quarrel a family could leave Shkreli for good. I have heard of families with origins in Kastrati, Shkreli and other clans who fled hundreds of years ago due to feuds and settled distant lands, Lezhë and Mirdita included. Personaly I am Kastrati but I come from Kosova. My guess is that my ancestors left the highlands either to flee trouble or in search for land,since the highlands are very barren lands and farming isn't possible to any great degree.
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donnie
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Mar 23, 2012 6:58:24 GMT -5
Post by donnie on Mar 23, 2012 6:58:24 GMT -5
It's very difficult to tell about individual cases, what you probably will have to do is talk to the elderlies of Klezna. But I think we can eliminate some possibilities.
Mirdita is divided into five bairaks, three of which are said to have a common origin, namely Oroshi, Spaçi & Kushnen. These in turn are said to be distantly related to the clans of Shala & Shoshi, with whom they did not intermarry because of blood. They are said to come from Pashtrik originally, from whence they fled from the advancing Turks. The fact that your ancestors intermarried with the Mirditors of Oroshi means they were not of the same origin. This means they were probably anas, or "locals" with no definite tale of where they originally came from.
The other two bairaks are called Fandi and Dibrri, not to be confused with Dibra. They are not blood-related with the three other bairaks but they were adopted by them and were also known as Mirditor. Fandi, originally, is said to have come from Luma, which is the territory around Kukës. A significant part of them moved to Kosova during the 18th and 19th centuries, to the extent that much of the rural Catholic population there is known as "fâns", people from Fandi.
If you're from Selita e Kthelles, then you should know Kthella is a clan of its own and not part of Mirdita,though they always went to war together. Whether they came from the south or whether they are anas I don't know. The only clan I've heard come from the south is Kabashi, and there is a village in the south called Kabash. Otherwise the direction of migration was usually southward, with many families in the territory of Himara having Mirditor origins.
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