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Post by meltdown711 on Aug 19, 2008 20:27:25 GMT -5
Its prolly an easier way into citizenship...
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Post by beratsimistrec on Aug 19, 2008 20:38:24 GMT -5
Weren't Vorio Epiriots assumed to be Greeks? Why does it take so long for them to become Greeks? (in real term)? I understand for Albanian immigrants (who by the way are all Orthodox surprisingly and from Gjergj are called Jorgo,) but not for Vorio Epiriots? What if they want to vote in Greece? And I have heard recently that some Vorio Epiriots want to make the military service in Greece well the majority of them are Albanians not Greeks, but it makes it easier for them to say they are from "northern epirus". I have family that lives in Greece and that's how they get their cards to stay in Greece legally. Like I said before, the Albanian immigrants in Greece have become more Greek than Greeks. Not all of them of course, but some are already starting to get assimilated, so I don't know why getting Greek citizenship would be a good thing for them?
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 19, 2008 21:08:02 GMT -5
I don't like the way Greeks use to assimilate Albanians. I don't like their policy if being Vorio Epiriot makes the process of legalization easier, without Greeks checking whether these people are real Vorio Epiriots or not. It is not hard to check it...(if they're willing to). Due to this policy, many Albanians have but one choice. Greeks know it very well, but do not want to take action. I am not sure about Greeks' reaction if let's say Turkey were in Greece position and Greeks in Albanian one. I also don't like the prejudice fueled by media against Albanians. This vicious circle (looking at Albanians with disguise so that they admit they are anything but Albanians to be accepted) irritates me. I don't know who to blame more: Albanians or Greeks
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Post by albquietman on Aug 19, 2008 22:20:12 GMT -5
Vorio-Eprirots not only are assumed to be greeks, but the problem with them is that they want to be albanians too, so they can vote in Albania too. That's the greek's plan by the way. Greeks do not want them to live in Greece, they want them to stay in Albania, if possible everywhere in Albania so they can claim tomorrow all the places where they live.
In my time, in order to get an "adhia paramonis", as greeks called it back then the card that proved that you are legally in Greece, you must have been vorio-epirot. Strange enough it didn't matter if you were albanian orthodox and didn't know a word in greek, you could get that card and be called greek by the greeks. Even the first graders understood it that this was part of the greek agenda in Albania. Of course a lot of albanians started changing names and last names in order to stay in Greece...these albanians today are part of the greek minority in Albania, so do not wonder when greek here come up with these ridiculous numbers about the greek minority....
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 19, 2008 22:29:23 GMT -5
lol...lol...just think Greek Vorio Epiriots living in Kosovo and claiming Kosovo, Serbs claiming Kosovo, Albanians claiming Kosovo..lol...lol....
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Post by albquietman on Aug 19, 2008 23:03:25 GMT -5
It can happen Teuta...only in Balkan can happen such things. Look at the greek claims for South Albania, even Vlora is included in their maps....
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 19, 2008 23:07:32 GMT -5
I don't think so AlbQ. They could do that before, during Balkanic War. Now it is too late. As per Vlora...Vlora has made history; 28 November and continues making it. It was Vlora that threw Sali Berisha from the "throne" in 1997 I think it was...nobody else did that. Look today!
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Post by albquietman on Aug 19, 2008 23:15:51 GMT -5
That's true, I know that they can't get Vlora, not even in their wildest dreams, but I wanted to point out the greek stupidity when it comes to their nationalistic agenda...on the other hand, they are entitled to dream of course and to get exited and...to build orgasm, as Karta would say ...we are building orgasm too with their help according to Karta
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 19, 2008 23:22:10 GMT -5
I don't think Greeks care that much though...only a few of them, mostly kids. I believe Greece itself is trying to stay as much away as possible when it comes to Vorio-Epir issue; most claims are made from Bolano & Co. We discuss it because we like to debate with Greeks for this issue, but here it stays. We are also living abroad and most of Greeks are. There are not many Albanians who live in Albania in this forum and there are not many Greeks who live in Greece to tell us. The Greek Government is not screaming about this issue. They are just trying to calm Bolano when he is about to commit diplomatic incidents.
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Post by albquietman on Aug 19, 2008 23:34:32 GMT -5
Greek government is not so stupid to go in the open and claim half of Albania. They have Bollano and company to do their dirty job. We have said here a lot of times why greeks are paying pensions to "vorio-epirots", who most of them are albanians that changed their albanian names to greek ones. If they were so humanists or if they do it out of humanity, they would have given pensions to albanians with albanian names too, but they don't. We'll see the result of all of this after several years, so Teuta, don't think that greek government is so innocent, of course it's not...she has never been...
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 19, 2008 23:44:49 GMT -5
Now that I think of it, does any country give pension to minorities? or is it only Greece? I believe that Greece goes after the theory "they are what they want to be or what they claim to be". So happened to Arvanites; the thing is that Greece now is more powerful economically than Albania. We can never tell how Albania can be in the future. Albania can also give pension to Albanian immigrants in Greece or to Albanians in FYROM. But the Hellenization process has started in South Albania. I believe it is only the first euphoric impact of people coming out of a dictatorial system with economic difficulties. Again now it is too late: because if there are only thousands of the so-called Greeks in Albania, there are about 1 million Albanians in Greece...who at some point will recall their identity! In the end, it is blood...not to add that they do not even have the Greek citizenship...
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Post by albquietman on Aug 20, 2008 0:20:41 GMT -5
I don't know of any country in the world to give pensions to their minorities, except Greece of course. But anybody knows what Greece is doing that, and I think even albanians that "become" greeks know that, but they don't care as long as they get free money from Greece. and as you said one day Greece will claim all this albanians as greeks, but of course greece doesn't really care about the people, but the land, and it will claim all the lands that these people live.
The problem here I think it's not that Greece will take these lands, but she will use it as a pressure when chams will make their case more visible to the world, and of course Greece in some way will have international pressure to find a way to resolve the cham issue. But Greece is not willing to resolve the cham issue, so the Vorio-Epir card, half of Albania will be used as a counter measure...to tell you the truth I give Greece some credit, because they are "working" on the cham issue really hard, to resolve it in their way, as they did so far. The stupid one here is the albanian government that is allowing greeks to realize their plans on the expense of chams...
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Post by Kastorianos on Aug 20, 2008 2:31:39 GMT -5
Oh....you are getting paranoid plak. Perasan ta chronakia pappouuu....
CONSPIRACIES EVERYWHERE!
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Post by meltdown711 on Aug 20, 2008 3:00:30 GMT -5
Your actually using it vocatively, so it would more appropriately be plako
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Post by Kastorianos on Aug 20, 2008 3:11:11 GMT -5
typing error.
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Post by Prespari on Aug 20, 2008 23:36:50 GMT -5
'Vorio epiriots' that are greek speeking peoples in albania, are in Greece seen as 'albanians'. They in greece have a disdain for them because they view them has somehow becoming albanian under all those years of communism. Those excerts from Greens book i put up,(the book is worth checking out), she has detailed this relationship on the greek side of the border and how they view the Greeks from albania.
As for the tosk thing ill just briefly return to it , many in prespa do identitfy as tosk but its is not an overarching or definiative marker of indentity.In fact regional factors paly more in how they term themselves, Prespar/Prespare being most common, followed by those from mostly with Devoll origens(though few have ever called themselves Devolliote) who strongly use the prespar identitification. However another group the 'Kolonjars' are bektashi muslims and formed part of the local elite, and hence that designation is still used by most 'devolliote' prespars. Kolonjars have used the derogatory word 'arbute' when describing people with devolliote origens due do they being mainly peasents in the past.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 20, 2008 23:54:43 GMT -5
It is not conspiracy. Greeks may use it as a card for Chams and for everything else: to exercise power for Albania to become an obedient state phantasm. Why not? Today's international policy is based on these relationships.
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Post by albquietman on Aug 21, 2008 0:07:50 GMT -5
Oh....you are getting paranoid plak. Perasan ta chronakia pappouuu.... CONSPIRACIES EVERYWHERE! Lol...plak, anyway, it's not paranoia or conspiracy theory Kastor, it's real life, but you internet greek warriors know nothing about it, because you've never been to Albania and you believe everything you read in internet...by the way do you know where Vlora, or Avlona as you call it, because that is included in your maps to, and I'm originally south of it, and I'm supposed to be a greek, according to your maps again...do you think I am, but I don't know it? But, as Teuta said, it's not because Greece want to annex our lands, but because she wants to keep what she stole long time ago and make us to stop b.itching about it...
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Post by beratsimistrec on Aug 21, 2008 9:37:27 GMT -5
Oh....you are getting paranoid plak. Perasan ta chronakia pappouuu.... CONSPIRACIES EVERYWHERE! Lol...plak, anyway, it's not paranoia or conspiracy theory Kastor, it's real life, but you internet greek warriors know nothing about it, because you've never been to Albania and you believe everything you read in internet...by the way do you know where Vlora, or Avlona as you call it, because that is included in your maps to, and I'm originally south of it, and I'm supposed to be a greek, according to your maps again...do you think I am, but I don't know it? But, as Teuta said, it's not because Greece want to annex our lands, but because she wants to keep what she stole long time ago and make us to stop b.itching about it... Why don't you relax, no one is taking over Vlora. Everyone dreams of greater maps in balkans, it doesn't mean it will happen. Where originally from Vlora are you from?
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Post by beratsimistrec on Aug 21, 2008 9:38:10 GMT -5
I don't know why that keeps happening, but here is what I meant to write.
Why don't you relax, no one is taking over Vlora. Everyone dreams of greater maps in balkans, it doesn't mean it will happen. Where originally from Vlora are you from?
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