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Post by manijak on Apr 8, 2009 10:42:46 GMT -5
When you go back, do you get a sense people are envious, jealous, they want to be in your place, or look at you as less of a patriot?
__________________________ Original Title: Do people in BIH dislike the diaspora? Altered: Do people in Balkans dislike the diaspora? (since it has been made as an announcement to be seen across IFs)
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Post by manijak on Apr 8, 2009 10:49:57 GMT -5
From another forum, I thought this summed it up well:
Dijaspora su mi svi u familiji.Volim ih ,naravno rođaci su mi,sretna sam što su ljudi uspjeli vani,poželim ih vidjeti,ali se svaki put pitam jesu li to oni isti ljudi od posljednjeg dolaska.Vole i oni doći,kako i ne bi,ali cijelo vrijeme pričaju kako smo ovakvi,onakvi,neradnici,prljavi,nesposobni,pune nam kafane itd.Kao da oni nisu Bosanci.Istina, uzeli ljudi državljanstva,ali to im ne daje prava da pljuju po nama.Svi koji imaju rođake dijasporce dijele moje mišljenje.Kukaju dijasporci kad dođu ovdje kao da im neko otima njihove "teško zarađene"pare.Potrošimo cijelu platu da ih ugostimo,a oni samo pričaju kako je kod nas strašno jeftino,a veliko im je kad mi djetetu daju 50 maraka.Naravno da ne očekujem niti želim da me bilo ko materijalno pomaže,ali se oni valjda jadni boje da im nešto ne zatražimo.Cijelo vrijeme pričaju o svojim autima,stanovima,odjeći,ljetovanjima i obilju u kojem žive,a istovremeno su ovdje ostvarili sva moguća primanja i naknade koje su mogli isisati iz ove države,iako su neki dobili azil u drugim državama,dakle varaju i ovu i drugu državu,a puna im usta vlastitog poštenja.Jede recimo moja rodica ručak i kaže kako je teletina kod nas jako jeftina,a kod njih skupa,a kad je pitam za cijenu kod njih ispada da ona za svoj ručak radi 2 sata ,a ja cijeli dan za isti,i opet tvrdi da je kod njih sve skuplje.Pa ne znam jesu li ti ljudi bezobrazni,glupi ili nas namjerno ponižavaju.Kažem opet rodbina je rodbina,ali mi sve više ide na živce njihova priča.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Apr 8, 2009 11:18:25 GMT -5
Of course they don't like us but they like the money we send them. People change throughout life, whether they move countries or not, countries change also...that's evolution.
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Post by fazlinho on Apr 8, 2009 11:25:31 GMT -5
They think there are gold paved roads here so we have no reasons to complain. They also have enough of our patriotism while our kids can't even speak the language. I have to agree diaspora people who act way too patriotic and can't speak the language do annoy me. How many times did I hear "what would I do to get to Italy" while I'll do all I can to go abroad as soon as I can after uni's done. It's as it is everywhere, people will always think that where they are is the worst, while the rest is the best.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Apr 8, 2009 11:27:33 GMT -5
Ja nisam primetio da me ljudi "ne vole" zato sto sam iz dijaspore.
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Post by manijak on Apr 8, 2009 12:46:30 GMT -5
So true.
About the other things the lady wrote about...
I think most people in the diaspora feel they HAVE to put down the situation in BIH, because if they don't, they will be confused about the direction in their own life. There have been situations of certain families telling others not to go back to BIH because there is nothing there..those people have gone back, are very happy..and now that person is confused.
We all love BIH but you can't live abroad and say favourable things about BIH..its too hard.
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Post by tito on Apr 8, 2009 14:08:09 GMT -5
Do people in BIH dislike the diaspora? No, not in general. When you go back, do you get a sense people are envious, jealous, they want to be in your place, or look at you as less of a patriot? The grass is always greener on the other side so some people seem to think that they would be better of outside Bosnia, but those people can hardly consider me less of a patriot. We all love BIH but you can't live abroad and say favourable things about BIH..its too hard. Unless you wish to return.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 8, 2009 21:55:21 GMT -5
People in BIH are just jealous.
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Post by zgembo on Apr 10, 2009 16:12:12 GMT -5
If you come and talk shit, obviously they will dislike you.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Apr 10, 2009 16:37:20 GMT -5
If you come and talk s**t, obviously they will dislike you.
I was thinking of that.
Basically be modest and do not boast even if you have to people who most likely do not have. That does not help them but might make them feel worse and thus antagonistic about you.
And do not criticize their life or make comments at their expense. (also = boasting about your new country versus old country)
Just accept them for who they (your equals, not equal or worse versus you) are without judging them. Also avoid (silly) comments directed at religion or politics and just be neighborly or friendly.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 10, 2009 20:36:17 GMT -5
Lower class people in BIH are moochers. Fact. They think people outside of the Balkans live in big palaces and should send them money. And when you're there they try to cheat you out of every cent you have. A person not being a moocher is the exception.
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
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Post by Nikola on Apr 11, 2009 0:58:20 GMT -5
...They think people outside of the Balkans live in big palaces... It's the same in Macedonia. But, you can't blame them for thinking that when diaspora people usually brag about how well off they are and all this money they have, and etc, etc. Also, people in the Balkans dont actually realise that it really isn't that bad there.
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Post by Novus Dis on Apr 11, 2009 1:38:34 GMT -5
Well the land there is worth a 1/10th of what it is worth here. That's about all that's "better". But it's not like life here is easier either! I doubt there are many in the Balkans who've had to pay 360$ a week for rent alone.
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Nikola
Senior Moderator
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Post by Nikola on Apr 11, 2009 1:51:59 GMT -5
Well that's the thing. Western money is worth a lot there because of weak Balkan currency. So, when someone from the US, Australia or western Europe goes over for a visit, they are suddenly rich. But, back in their own country, they are probably struggling just as much as local Balkanians.
I actually worked it out when I was there; if you directly compared the average Aussie's salary (for example) to that of a Macedonian, then the Aussie would come out way richer. But, when you take into consideration how cheap food and other stuff is in Macedonia (and BiH), it works out to be not all that different.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Apr 11, 2009 8:55:09 GMT -5
So they try to have a benefit out of you otherwise what good you are to them (lets be frank).
Balkanians are not the warmest of people to 'outsiders' (which basically means anyone outside of the small family circle such as mother-father-kids) and basically could care less for them. Long gone are the days of original tribal mentalities and modern perceptions of family have deeply set in.
Now with that said add to this an outsider from the west coming once every several years for short time span (several weeks) most likely boasting to people who are doing reverse of that and natural response is to help him trim some 'fat' (otherwise why boast since that really is saying to them that you have far more then you need and they certainly would not say no to some of it).
Now get them used to gifts and you become their fake star. Fake cause even though you might have given them for 99 times in the row but if you omit once the last time you become a shadow not worth mentioning or if mentioned it would not be in a positive light.
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In terms of income and overall living standards I see that vast majority of diaspora Balkan families do not live a more luxurious life in their new western home. In fact many or at least some downgraded in those terms and do not appear better off by being here yet still persist (enigma to me). Would not one desire living like crap home rather then living like crap in strange land (at least one is home).
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Post by manijak on Apr 11, 2009 9:16:24 GMT -5
The way I look at it is most Balkan people don't care that much about luxury. The simple small-town life is entretched in the majority of Balkan people, cause we are mostly brought up in a smal-town, simple life type of environment. And chances are that as you grow up, that is what you will value.
And this is the case precisley due to what you say, Aadmin. If you want luxury, and this can be location, having a bigger home, a nice loking home, or whatever, you will pay for that but chances are you wont have much extra money. There is this perception that in the west you make so much money, you have so much extra, that you can do what you want.
So, if you dont care about that big home, being that close to big stores/services etc..that life in the Balkans might just be better than the west.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 11, 2009 9:32:11 GMT -5
People down there always assoicete Cars with luxury. In some way a car is a luxury but here in the west a car is something that almost every person have. I know for a fact when i drive down there with my car some people say im rich, some say "to je na kredit" but here its just something everyone have. Everyone here after they buy a flat or house, get a job and they buy a car. thats something normal.
On the other hand u can act how u want and be how good u want people will always look down on you. Thats why i dont give a shit.. I know who my friends are..
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Post by manijak on Apr 11, 2009 9:45:30 GMT -5
People down there always assoicete Cars with luxury. In some way a car is a luxury but here in the west a car is something that almost every person have. I know for a fact when i drive down there with my car some people say im rich, some say "to je na kredit" but here its just something everyone have. Everyone here after they buy a flat or house, get a job and they buy a car. thats something normal. On the other hand u can act how u want and be how good u want people will always look down on you. Thats why i dont give a s**t.. I know who my friends are.. nemoj se kurciti The west is a credit society..simple as that. And that is allowed to happen when there is jobs available for the population...because you give credit on the basis that there is a capability/potential for those people to pay it back. So you end up being able to own a lot of things you wouldn't otherwise. People in the Balkans are not use to that.
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Post by ilirdardani on Apr 11, 2009 9:57:11 GMT -5
...They think people outside of the Balkans live in big palaces... It's the same in Macedonia. But, you can't blame them for thinking that when diaspora people usually brag about how well off they are and all this money they have, and etc, etc. Also, people in the Balkans dont actually realise that it really isn't that bad there. Well some of them make it bad for all of us, they go around lying how rich they are etc. how good life is in the western world and crap like that. But you really do get this feeling especially now 10+ years after the war, that they don't give a shit about the diaspora, even though the diaspora kept them alive through the 80s and 90s. (talking about Kosovo here as an example)
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Apr 11, 2009 10:00:41 GMT -5
People down there always assoicete Cars with luxury. In some way a car is a luxury but here in the west a car is something that almost every person have. I know for a fact when i drive down there with my car some people say im rich, some say "to je na kredit" but here its just something everyone have. Everyone here after they buy a flat or house, get a job and they buy a car. thats something normal. On the other hand u can act how u want and be how good u want people will always look down on you. Thats why i dont give a s**t.. I know who my friends are.. nemoj se kurciti The west is a credit society..simple as that. And that is allowed to happen when there is jobs available for the population...because you give credit on the basis that there is a capability/potential for those people to pay it back. So you end up being able to own a lot of things you wouldn't otherwise. People in the Balkans are not use to that. Exactly people think Kredit is something u are given.. Well that has to be payed back as well.. I know some from dijaspora who has ordinary golf III and people down there are tellin like "u live in dijaspora and drive that shit" but when u have a nice car, onda se kurcis. So u cant really be perfect haha there will be jeleous people everywhere.
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