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Post by divingfalcon on Sept 20, 2008 9:02:38 GMT -5
^ Muslim propaganda was strong enough to convince people from the Middle East and North Africa to join Izebegovic's cause so no BS please. What propaganda. So you are saying ethnic cleansing of eastern and northern Bosnia did not happen in early 1992, which is a common well known fact- even admitted by Plavsic and co. “We didn’t need people, we needed weapons. But these people arrived anyway, and they evidently harmed the image of Bosnia" is what i believe as well, just like Haris Silajdzic said. In Bosnia there was always more people willing to defend their home against the agressors then we had rifles. So in 1992 as an example were i am from- there was 1 hunting,old semi-automatic rifles or pistols amongst 7-10 people. what they used to do is take pan and bang them and yell allahu ekbar, while most serbs got sh$% scarred thinking its hundreds to thousands of people attacking them. So they would just run and leave their positions." Also to cccc cccc dude.... no no one is saying we had pitch forks. However, our army did not have any heavy weapons aside from a few mortars...However, towards the end of the war many factories had started producing mortars and other weaponry. This syill doesnt compare to what the serbs had- virtually unexahustable supplies of ammo, tanks, artillery and even ground attack aircraft. Had there not been an arms embargo you can be sure we would have easily completed the job and there wouldnt have been no stalemate. There was billions of dollars to be used not to mention how much aid would have come from muslim countries had their not been an embargo. 50 tanks and 150 artillery pieces 155mm would have been enough- considering our 200,000 strong infantry force. Like i said from 93 when our army was actually made and consolidated the serbs didnt gain an inch, except for the demiliterized enclave of Srebrenica-only loosing. The only reason serbs signed dayton is cause they knew we could only get stronger and they could only get weaker. Had the arms embargo been even partially lifted we know very well that Bosnia would have made Oluja look like a picnic operation.
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Post by theblackswans on Sept 20, 2008 10:26:49 GMT -5
dude no they werent less. they were about the same. However, it is obvious from the stats who it was that ordered and committed ethnic cleansing in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Prijedor,Srebrenica,Bratunac,Brcko,Visegrad,Zvornik..etc were all preety much Bosnian towns. Serbs were rural folk overall. Well do you have a better or more comprhensive, less biased study then? I don't see why Norway- a christian side would favour the Bosniak Muslim side... ?? Serbs to this day can not or do not want to comprahend the truth and as such want to make everything seem equal. It is the serbs (mainly from Serbia, Montenegro and other cetnik hordes) who started ethnically cleansing eastern Bosnian towns such as Bijelina,Zvornik and Bratunac before even one shot in self defense was fired at them. An example is the 3000 Bosniaks including women and babies ( i even posed you the site of a mass grave that included bodies of babies indentified through DNK DNA analysis). The truth is there but claiming some equaliy in crimes is the problem and is in fact supporting the twisted mental genocidal ideas of those who planned them and executed the liquidation and expulsion of innocent people. It must be known and recognised who the victims were, who killed them- on bosniak, serbian and croat sides. Your my hero! I agree with you about Izetbegovic as well, cleary though in comparison to others leaders of the time Tudjman, Boban, Karadzic and Milosevic he comes off as a saint. Your right about the Shelling from Serbia proper along the Drina as well. It happened in many towns in Bosnia during the war including Srebrenica. Your right about Serbia as well taking in refugees? They expelled Croats and other minorities from Vojvodina, Bosniaks from Sandzak. There is also the famous case of the Bosniaks pulled off the train in Serbia and executed. There are numerous other incidents of Bosniaks fleeing the war and being killed, imprisoned and tortured inside Serbia. Croatia was much more receptive to Bosniak refugees even during the HVO/ABiH fighting.
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Post by tito on Sept 20, 2008 17:32:55 GMT -5
The war happened, NOT only because of one meeting Milosevic and Tudjman decided to split BiH between Serbia and Croatia and if you still don’t believe that BOSNIA WAS VICTIM OF SERBIAN / CROATIAN PLOT then you are a true idiot.
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Post by vinjak on Sept 20, 2008 18:32:36 GMT -5
Definatley not in the beginning of the War. Milosevic and Tudjman did meet and carved up Bosnia but that came later and was not the cause of the War.
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Post by divingfalcon on Sept 20, 2008 21:29:07 GMT -5
Vinyak so your saying it wasn't the serbo-croat conflic that Bosnia was caught in...that also caused a war in BiH ??
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Post by osmano on Sept 21, 2008 3:50:34 GMT -5
not in the beginning of the War. Milosevic and Tudjman did meet and carved up Bosnia but that came later The Karaðorðevo meeting was held in March 1991, that is more then a year before the aggression on Bosnia started.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Sept 21, 2008 4:47:07 GMT -5
The war happened, NOT only because of one meeting Milosevic and Tudjman decided to split BiH between Serbia and Croatia and if you still don’t believe that I Alija i Babo isto. Njih si zaboravio.
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Post by osmano on Sept 21, 2008 4:52:20 GMT -5
The Karaðorðevo meeting was held in March 1991, that is more then a year before the aggression on Bosnia started.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Sept 21, 2008 5:00:20 GMT -5
The Karaðorðevo meeting was held in March 1991, that is more then a year before the aggression on Bosnia started. Ja nisam pricao za Karadjordjevo nego ko je sve hteo da uzme svoj deo kolaca. Sve je to ista skola CK KPJU. Stari drugari.
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Post by osmano on Sept 21, 2008 5:09:02 GMT -5
The Karaðorðevo meeting was held in March 1991, that is more then a year before the aggression on Bosnia started. Ja nisam pricao za Karadjordjevo nego ko je sve hteo da uzme svoj deo kolaca. Sve je to ista skola CK KPJU. Stari drugari. Dok su Milosevic i Tudjman dogovarali podjelu BiH u Karadjordjevu, Aljo i Gligorov su molili Evropu da ne prizna nezavisnost Slovenije i Hrvatske.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Sept 21, 2008 15:00:18 GMT -5
No you are an idiot Tito, because you clearly refuse to read my posts As we know, Bosnia was a very complex situation, at least it turned out that way in the end, so it had nothing at all to do with their grand plans of carving up the place (because if it had gone to plan surely we would have seen a much brief and less destructive war). I believe they were determined to cause trouble in BiH, so Bosnia would be a much weaker place. I mean could you imagine if the Croats and muslims were unified and strong and it never happened? It would then be a HUGE threat to Croatia and Serbia proper today. Just think about it. But no, these idiots on all sides had to create so many little wars within one beautiful country to destabalise it again.
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Post by tito on Sept 22, 2008 9:28:52 GMT -5
How was Bosnia in a "complex situation" before Karadjordjevo when both Alija and Macedonia’s president Gligorov still tried to save Yugoslavia while Milosevic was plotting against both Yugoslavia and Bosnia with Tudjman?
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Sept 22, 2008 10:23:22 GMT -5
During it was complex, how many mini wars did we have within one? Serbs v Cro, Cro v Cro, Cro v Bos, Cro-Serb v Bo...Bos v Bos...no one knew what the hell what was going on. Is that not complex enough?
Eh perhaps Alija (just a little ignorant you don't think?) made a bad decision after all, trying to save Yougoslavia , funniest thing from this....how can you save what Tito undone himself while he was still alive? 30 Billion $ from the west down the drain...
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Post by tito on Sept 22, 2008 10:31:47 GMT -5
Let’s try again: How was Bosnia in a "complex situation" before Karadjordjevo when both Alija and Macedonia’s president Gligorov still tried to save Yugoslavia while Milosevic was plotting against both Yugoslavia and Bosnia with Tudjman?
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Sept 22, 2008 12:00:53 GMT -5
Oh right so after all this, and not being able to understand what I said before, you divert me yet again with a question. Eh Tito, pravis se glup ali znam da nisi! I said Bosnia was a very complex situation, not mentioning pre or post war. I was reffering to during.
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Post by tito on Sept 22, 2008 12:13:14 GMT -5
The point is that you are deliberately equating guilt by ignoring the fact that the Karadjordjevo plot happened while Alija(and Gligorov) where still attempting hold Yugoslavia together.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Sept 22, 2008 12:21:16 GMT -5
I never said it didn't happen, everyone knows it did...ah joj I'm just going to ignore you as you are going over the same thing. I recognise that and I recognise their stupidity as I said before trying to "hold" Yugoslavia together. So therefore I still equat equal guilt on all sides. All looked after their own positions, not their nations.
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Post by tito on Sept 22, 2008 12:32:21 GMT -5
Izetbegovic and Gligorov beg EU to hold Yugoslavia together while Tudjman and Milosevic plot against Yugoslavia and Bosnia in Karadjordjevo and illyrias conclusion is: It was the leaders of all people that created this. Jebem ja tebe mutavu!!
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Sept 22, 2008 12:39:56 GMT -5
Just because you don't agree with me or won't, whatever; I can accept that. But for your personal attacks which you have done so before will be either removed or edited. I'm warning you only once.
So what's your point they tried to hold it together when they really didn't want it (gee how did Alija become first President of this new country if he so loved Yugoslavia?). And the other's were trying to plan it's demise, when they really just wanted their names in history...they knew Yugoslavia was over, something you can't seem to handle, and wanted to become the new father's of a new era. They saw that as an opportunity and I am the first in saying, what happened at these meetings were a disgrace, and Franjo was taken for a big 'ol ride from the Serbs and serves him right for being that blesav... may he rest in hell with the other 2.
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Post by osmano on Sept 22, 2008 12:59:02 GMT -5
After 3 pages of repeated attempts to explain the same things that where said by president Mesic in the VIDEO-interview she asks: LOL Tito cant you see that there is no point in discussing anything with here? You have shown here the videos, explain the facts and she even accepts the historic events that took place,, but obviously she is not intelligent enough to recognize the connections between what took place in 1991 and the aggression on Bosnia 1992-1995.
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