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Post by fazlinho on Oct 31, 2008 11:30:27 GMT -5
I offered to call you all Bosniaks if you agreed that Bosniaks were a subgroup of Serbs but you didn't accept that. Why should I accept that BS? Besides, we don't really give a crap how you call us, as I said, you can call us with our previous official name and we'll do the same with you. No big deal. Now, now, this is funny... you know, the Bosniak national consciousness in Bosnia is even higher than the Serb one, it's funny how for an example in the last Bosnian census you couldn't find one single Bosniak who declared himself as a Croat or a "serb" yet you could find in every major "serb" populated city a lot of people who declared themselves as what they were, Vlachs. So, it's kinda funny even in 1991 you had no idea who you were. I simply can't agree with the first 2 + 2 = 5 part, as for the second, it's kind of funny one of the member of the people whose national consciousness is heavily influenced by religion tells me this. I'm not saying the Bosniak one isn't.
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Post by tito on Oct 31, 2008 11:31:46 GMT -5
the Turks didn't have a habit of shifting non Muslim populations ;D zato je Kosovo Srbija LOL Orthodox Christian Serbs were the absolute majority in Bosnia Never.
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Post by meltdown711 on Oct 31, 2008 11:37:00 GMT -5
Turks shifted whatever was in their favor. Hence why they continued to settle Serbs (or Vlachs) in Krajina and RS...
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 31, 2008 11:40:35 GMT -5
Muslim history/logic/mentality: Turks imported 20 times more Vlachs into Bosnia than there were Bosniaks.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 31, 2008 12:03:10 GMT -5
I find it hilarious that "Muslims" think they can be superior to us. In Yugoslavia you had the Shiptars and Muslims who were in a lower rung. Both were remnants of a sickly and backward non-European empire. They had the lowest cultural development and the least education. Your parents raise you, correcting uncultured behaviour by telling you only balije do that and only Shiptars do this. Yet, both those people though highly of themselves. Hillarious. "Svaki cigo hvali svog konja" jbg. I find two things funny about this, your parents nationalism, and that you are so into european and non-european empires, since you posted a pic of your self, and you are darker then most exyugos I know... funny you should mention "cigo" since you looked more lika a cigo then a south slavic Serb
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 31, 2008 12:05:58 GMT -5
Muslim history/logic/mentality: Turks imported 20 times more Vlachs into Bosnia than there were Bosniaks. Vlachs were there before the Slavs, and Bosnjanin was either a tribe, or a half-regional term like Austrian is to German for the Slavs who lived there, the Bosnjanin Bosnia, is not the same as modern day BiH, and yes Serbs were imported into the north of Bosnia by the ottomans, befre this it was either Croat or Bosnjanin, depending on who you want to belivie. Also, all of you losers need to get one things into your small minds, nation states were formed in the 1700-1800s, so few people of todays serbs croats bosnians what ever have a "line" tracing back to the times of tvrtko and lazar...just nobles looked at them selfs as something, most of the seljaks just got their food taken away from them, and stop with your naitonal romantic BS...
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 31, 2008 12:16:19 GMT -5
Can someone please explain to me why Muslims seem to think that this is derogatory term to call Serbs? Furthermore can someone explain to me why some Serbs get offended by this term? I think its pretty obvious down to the wire that Serbs (As well as all Slavs from the Balkans) have some degree of Vlach in them. Its commong knowledge that Vlachs are the descendants of Latin people left over from the Roman Empire who mixed with Illyrians and other ancient Hellene tribes.........and later mixed in with the invading Slavs. And its also common knowledge that the Croats and Serbs (The major Slav tribes since Bosnians, Macedonians and Montenegrins never existed) absorbed these people into their own. The patron saint of Dubrovnik was Vlach, as were the two of the greatest royal houses of todays Montenegro........the Balsic's and the Petrovicis (Supposedly). Hell even Tose Proeski was a Vlach! I traced my family tree onto Illyria a few months ago, and found a few Vlach names among my ancestors. Why should i be ashamed of been related to a people who are decendants of the greatest Empire the world has ever seen? So if they were here first, and the Muslims continue to label us their descendants, does that not mean that todays "Serbs" infact have more claim to Bosnia then they do? hm...... There was a whole number of "Slav tribes" that came down into the balkans from 500-700 AD, nation states and national dientety are something from the 1700-1800, so whilst you might get of on macedoanian and bosnian not being "real" tribes, know that modern day serbs have little to do with the ones from the year 1300... Dusanovo Carstvo and all that... If you asked me, I would say that the Bosnjani, who were around, were to Croats, as Austrians are to Germans... Anyways there is a documents where Tvrtko and Some polish dude talk about how polish and Bosnian people come from the same tribe, as in Slavs... but, yes yes, ofcors, Bosnian history is all BS, whilst Serbs are the same as the small tribe that came in 700 AD Anyways, do you want to know why Vlacj is used as an insult.. Here is the reason, hold on, just in case you wondred and did not just make a ""serbs are real people unlike ret of balkans thread"" Vlachs lived in the Hills of Bosnia, or they were forced in to the hills when the Slavs came, and even after the Vlachs started to talk slavic, things stayed like this, even in the medieval times.. So the people in Bosnia from around the rivers, like eastern and central bosnia, called the people that were not from the river or from the valley, Vlachs.... So what happens in the 1500s... The Turks come, and they find a bunch of slavic talking poeples, about half of whom are real Slavs, anyways, the ones in the valleys and rivers convert to Islam, seen as under the Ottoman system, it was the urban population that became Muslims, the poeple who lived outside the town/valley did much less convert to Islam, but stayed christian... As most of the population from the valleys and towns converted to islam, whilst those outside did not, no matter who was what, seen as the vlachs and slavs got mixed out, as they are in most parts of Bosnia today, Vlachs was still used for the poeple outside of the valley, even if they no longer were just vlachs, and did not just speak latin-like language, then the term spread into other parts where stokavski was spoken, and got used as an insult for non-muslims.... and get over your selfs, nation states were formed in the 1700-1800, just nobles look at them self as anything before the turks came, so honestly get over your national pride based on some BS 500 years ago, I honestly do not care... lol, and keep Tose Proeski out of politics, some group of exyugo girls could find out where you live, and do horrible things to you I think most poeple who use Vlach do not know what is even is, it is just an insult... Like most Serbs do not know what Balija is, but 70% of you guys throw the word around like the end of the world is comming.. Looking at this forum, and at the Balkans, I just do not get how that low, blondish, locksmith was able to keep some of the most retarded people in the planted from killing each other over 1000 year old history, and making a state that almost worked....
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 31, 2008 13:56:44 GMT -5
Vlachs were there before the Slavs, and Bosnjanin was either a tribe, or a half-regional term like Austrian is to German for the Slavs who lived there, the Bosnjanin Bosnia, is not the same as modern day BiH, and yes Serbs were imported into the north of Bosnia by the ottomans, befre this it was either Croat or Bosnjanin, depending on who you want to belivie. Also, all of you losers need to get one things into your small minds, nation states were formed in the 1700-1800s, so few people of todays serbs croats bosnians what ever have a "line" tracing back to the times of tvrtko and lazar...just nobles looked at them selfs as something, most of the seljaks just got their food taken away from them, and stop with your naitonal romantic BS... Fact: When the Turks conquered Bosnia, there was an absolute Serb majority (90%) there. Those who I refer to as "Serb" spoke Serbian, had Serb customs and they worshiped the in the Serbian Orthodox Church. Until the mid 1800s, the Serbs in Bosnia stayed an absolute majority. Now I want all Muslims here to pull their heads out of their asses and smell the damn roses.
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Post by kapetan on Oct 31, 2008 14:31:23 GMT -5
No slander or provocation - Deucaon.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 31, 2008 18:19:07 GMT -5
Vlachs were there before the Slavs, and Bosnjanin was either a tribe, or a half-regional term like Austrian is to German for the Slavs who lived there, the Bosnjanin Bosnia, is not the same as modern day BiH, and yes Serbs were imported into the north of Bosnia by the ottomans, befre this it was either Croat or Bosnjanin, depending on who you want to belivie. Also, all of you losers need to get one things into your small minds, nation states were formed in the 1700-1800s, so few people of todays serbs croats bosnians what ever have a "line" tracing back to the times of tvrtko and lazar...just nobles looked at them selfs as something, most of the seljaks just got their food taken away from them, and stop with your naitonal romantic BS... Fact: When the Turks conquered Bosnia, there was an absolute Serb majority (90%) there. Those who I refer to as "Serb" spoke Serbian, had Serb customs and they worshiped the in the Serbian Orthodox Church. Until the mid 1800s, the Serbs in Bosnia stayed an absolute majority. Now I want all Muslims here to pull their heads out of their asses and smell the damn roses. care to explain how come what was then Bosnia was catholic, and why most poeple spoke i-kavski..... If Bosnia was 90% Serb, how on earth was it that the orthodox churches only come after the Turks came, but all the old churhces are catholic? you guys have churches from the 1300 in kosovo, not in BiH... Look at the map of skokavski, and what is spoken, and you will see that there was a population shift of Serbs from Serbia/Kosovo/CrnaGora/Hercegovina into Bosnia and Vojvodina during Ottoman times.. And some of todays Bosniacs are also from those Serbs, the whole Balkan is mixed, you probably have in you Bosniac blood, well "Muslims" who spoke stokavski, and Croatian.. Bosnjani were either to Croats as Austrians are to Germans, or they were like "Dalmatinci", but this is old history, it might be intresting, but nuttjobbs like you use it for modern day politics... upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/sr/f/fe/DijalektiStok.jpglook at istocnohercegovacki, that is, well that was "serb" long time ago, look how it shifts behind the i-kavski places and is even in Croatia... honestly, I do not care who in my family was what 500 years ago, it is intresting, but unlike some I am not dumb enough to use history for politics, and Bosniacs mostly just call them selfs Bosnian, and most of the poeple I know did so before the war, just get over it... What if you found out you were a Croat, or perhaps that you are half Turk? would that change anything? no... anyways, I said to the OP what the word vlach comes from, and the history of the slavs comming into the balkans in 500-700 is intresting, and far more complex then people like you think... and the modern serbian identety i, just like all the exyu identeties just a product of the millet system where people were devided by their religion...how come you find the same surnames amongst croats bosniacs and serbs?
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Post by SKORIC on Oct 31, 2008 18:59:58 GMT -5
VLACH PRIDE!!!
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Post by radovic on Oct 31, 2008 19:11:46 GMT -5
Except that's bul;ls**t. There was a Vlach population in Dalmatia and Herzegovina before the Ottomans arrived in Bosnia. Again Tito you are an idiot if you look at my post? If all the lands surrounding Bosnia (and Bosnia) seem to posses the nomadic people known as Vlachs, then why woulldn't Bosnia also? Before the artival of the Turks there were Vlach populations in Dalmatia, Hercegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, even Hungary and as far away as Slovakia and southern Poland [the Goral ethnic group indicates this]. Why exactly would Bosnia have no Vlachs? It's bulls**t to claim they were "imported".
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 31, 2008 19:13:48 GMT -5
It seems that the Balije here are more delusional than I thought. The Dobrun Monastery in Bosnia was made in the 9th century (and is currently the only Serbian Orthodox Monastery in Bosnia that was made before the 12th century and wasn’t destroyed.) Most of the churches/monasteries built after 1600 were recreations of churches/monasteries destroyed by the Turks, Ustashi and Izetbegovic. For the last millennia, over a thousand historical Serb churches/monasteries have been destroyed.
So I suppose after you people continuing destroying all remnants of Serbian Orthodox history in Bosnia (as the KLA are doing in Kosovo) then you will finally be able to embrace your false history.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 31, 2008 19:22:09 GMT -5
It seems that the Balije here are more delusional than I thought. The Dobrun Monastery in Bosnia was made in the 9th century (and is currently the only Serbian Orthodox Monastery in Bosnia that was made before the 12th century and wasn’t destroyed.) Most of the churches/monasteries built after 1600 were recreations of churches/monasteries destroyed by the Turks, Ustashi and Izetbegovic. For the last millennia, over a thousand historical Serb churches/monasteries have been destroyed. So I suppose after you people continuing destroying all remnants of Serbian Orthodox history in Bosnia (as the KLA are doing in Kosovo) then you will finally be able to embrace your false history. Dobrun is east of Visegrad, in medival times, visegrad was part of hercegovina, not Bosnia, hence you had Serbs there, I was not talking about modern day BiH with its 1943 borders, I was talking about Bosnia, the one from before the time of Tvrtko with the Bans and all that.. You will find orthodox churches in eastern hercegovina and south easern bosnia, you know why, since those places were not bosnian in medival times... in the north, serbs were imported after the turks "used up" a lot of the locals, and needed someone at the front, and, does it matter that the ottomans imported serbs? so friking what, a lot of modern day bosniacs come from those serbs. its medival history, but you just can't face it, seen as you live in a world where who was what 500 years ago matters, to you it does, but you know what, i bet you will find croats, slavic muslims, and even albanians in your blood line, thats gotta hurt, the whole balkan is one giant mix... And vlachs were just romanized balkan poeples that lived there before the slavs came..
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 31, 2008 19:29:47 GMT -5
And what about all the Serb Orthodox churches/monasteries that were destroyed over the millennia?
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 31, 2008 19:50:49 GMT -5
pricao sam o gdje je bila koja crkva.. ali boli me vise kurac... boli me za srbe muslimane i hrvate....ja sam od danas siptar...ili mozda da budem makedonac..njih skoro razumijem.....
rekao sam odakle se koristi rijec "vlah", to danas vise nema veze sa pravim vlasima, a exyugovci su svi miks pola slaveni, pola starobalkanci/vlasi... a boli me ustvari kurac za historiji, svi se toliko na to palite, da je bolestno...boli me kurac, jeli sam srbin siptar madar, marsovac, turcin.. arap? ko zna.. mozda sam njemac...
i drugi evropski narodi isto imaju kao mi, niko nema "pravu historiju", ali nisu toliko glupi da se oko toga zajebavaju, neki od vas mislite da je vazno ko je ko, ali znas sta, ko to jos misli, razna plemena u africi, hutui i tutsi.. i boli me vise.,,,,
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 31, 2008 20:17:08 GMT -5
If you don’t give a damn then stop spreading your BS propaganda.
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Post by srbobran on Oct 31, 2008 20:39:05 GMT -5
Well Vlachs are just Romanized Illyrians so there not really all that ethnically different from the peoples we assimilated when Serbia first appeared on the Balkans anyways.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 31, 2008 20:48:28 GMT -5
Are not most Yugos Dinarics and Thracians... with perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 slav in us...
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 31, 2008 20:48:49 GMT -5
If you don’t give a damn then stop spreading your BS propaganda. I like you, do you like me
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