Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Oct 1, 2009 8:56:00 GMT -5
They came with this music from east and concuered your high-ranking super duper advanced nation hahaha... At least I feel disgust when I hear this music...you may had grandparents who felt proud singing that...and marching towards the placke..
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Oct 1, 2009 9:41:02 GMT -5
s.hit on the graves of those vermins...may they burn in hell...day by day..and forever.
|
|
|
Post by Duke John on Oct 1, 2009 9:47:17 GMT -5
At least I feel disgust when I hear this music...you may had grandparents who felt proud singing that...and marching towards the placke.. Does it disgust you or scare you?lol never knows you may had also.
|
|
|
Post by Duke John on Oct 1, 2009 9:52:44 GMT -5
s.hit on the graves of those vermins...may they burn in hell...day by day..and forever. Yes s.hit on them...lmao the ones that concuered your "high-ranking" super developed nation...lol Gâvur is a gâvur and thats how it goes.
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Oct 1, 2009 10:41:37 GMT -5
Does high-ranking mean unconquerable? Since when? Why dont you talk about the Romans, too?
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Oct 1, 2009 14:20:57 GMT -5
Why does it always appear to me that Greeks have this urge to downplay the importance of the Arvanites' role in the revolution while at the same time praising the Maniates to the skies? Is it some subconscious urge to deny any possible Albanian contribution to the revolution, since inevitable back in the head of many there exists an equation which says Arvanites = Albanians? What exactly did the Maniates do to outshine the Arvanites & Suliots? And what's this supposed alliance between the Phanariotes and Arvanites ... this seems like a contradiction to the general rhetorics of the likes of Aristidh Kola who see Phanar and most things related to Asia Minor & Constantinople in a negative light ... Well, I suppose you are a guy that isn't satisfied with smattering... Kolias was a funny guy that brought a big crack in the Arvanitiki dignity, and he is very responsible for the gradual disappearance of arvanitika(the language). Arvanites feel ashamed for him, even his own village in Boeotia. Kolias' " archaiolatreia"(i dont know the word is english,its like obsession with antiquity) was the major factor of his oddness and christianity didn't fit in his pelasgodorikarvanitic theories...I suppose that was the reason he though "helladocentricly", and Constantinoupolis doesn't go with Zeus, Titans etc etc.... In few words. During the Revolution,Phanariotes understood that their good days in Phanari ended because Turks would't forgive them that they hadn't stopped the beginning of the revolution in Moreas and Roumeli. These guys(Mavrokordatos,Neghris,etc) thought that a free Greece would be the perfect place to continue their intriguant lives...and finally the only ones who worked as henchmen and financiers for Phanariotes were the Souliotes and the Ydrospetsiotes... Souliotes have already lost their home for about 20 years and they though that a guy like Mavrokordatos, with big relations with important personalities abroad and power inside, would guarantee them a new place to live...thats was the main reason why Souliotes always fought whenever Mavrokordatos wanted. Ydrospetsiotes' heads never wanted the Revolution. Only after the uprising of Oikonomou and his friend Gikas managed to persuade the kapetanious to let their ships to join the Struggle and give a big ammount of money. This of course was not forgiven and in the first second month of the Revolution Oikonomou was assasined after Voulgaris and Koundouriotis' will. These two families, mainly, were the funders of the Phanariotic clique and both gained...especially after the two big loans from England, which were used by Koudouriotis to build his seaside villas.... One of the most respectable memoir writers, and most objective Moraites, was Kolokotronis' adjutant and protopalikaro, Photis Chrysanthopoulos or Photakos, and here is a fragment of him memoirs: " These they told to the foreigners, who easily persuaded, and one by one by one came and attached to one and another, I mean to Mavrokordatos and Negris and others, but to Dimitrios Ypsilantis none came close because he was united with the element of the land, and because of this Negris,Karatzas and Mavrokordatos didn’t trust him. Unfortunately with the three latter all the race of Greek Arvanites allied , and first of all island Ydra that gave them morale and material strength. As much as someone wants to hymn its race heroism and patriotism, he will find them always to love the material benefits instead of iternal glory. By them started and happened all the misadventures of the civil wars and other troubles. Real Greels wanting to seem superior and tolerant for the good of the general cause, and for not to be accused for exclusiveness, wanted to accept, and accepted from all the parts representatives without having analogous real population. They neither paid taxes, nor did drudgeries, nor gave soldiers, nor weights suffered, nor any job did without paying them. All the weights and miseries of the struggle the locals(Grecophones) suffered. They(Grecophones) acted bravely, impassively and ingenuously, the other(Arvanites) guilefully, insidiously and wilily were thinking and acted so they managed to gain extra rights, strengthened , got the majority in the administration and pushed away the locals(Grecophones) of the political things. This spirit existed then, the same spirit and energy exists and today. For this among ,the Greek troops , disbelief is rising, and all the misfortunes in the Nation. So political intrigue finds much “food” here, and the national progress regress. Finally the representatives of the both sides started to gather, and the one part(phanararvanitiko) had as gatherpoint Kranidi and Kastri of Ermioni, the other under Ypsilantis and Kolokotronis had Nauplion…" Xrysanthopoulos Fotios-Fotakos-Apomnimoneumata peri tis Ellinikis Epanastaseos,v.4,p.70PS.And come to Achaia and ask anyone whay they know about the local Arvanites and their role in the Revolution, and also say one name :Nenekos..... I have a hard time believing Kola had such a role in the demise of Arbërishte. It was in decline before him and will dissappear completely very soon, a scenario and reality very independent of Kola's existence ... Either way, be it as it may, as I cannot counter you for the moment on the matter of Arvanites aligning themselves with the Phanariotes ... it still feels you're undermining the role of this community in the revolution and raise the Maniates to the skies. It feels to me that only the tiny islands of Hydra and Spetsia, essentially two exclusively Arvanitic islands, played a role comparable in importance to that of the Maniates. They made up the backbone of the vital naval Greek force which played a decisive role in the war. Were it not for the improvised navy, Ottomans would've had an easy time supplying isolated Ottoman garrisons in the war zone. Or even whole armies ... instead they had to come from the land which bought significiant time for the revolution. Laskarina Bubulina ('Lightning' in our language) is not a symbol for nothing ... nor was Miaoulis, Kriezis, Manol Lazri and others. That alone was of decisive importance. We're completely neglecting the Arvanites of the continent, all of whom rose to their feet and contributed to the war like nobody else, and few places were there that didn't give an immortal hero. I can mention some names if you like? And even now we're again excluding yet another group, namely the Suliots who have in many ways become the very symbols of the revolution with heroes like Marko Bocari/Botsaris who, though I might be mistaken and please correct me, is comparable if not greater than any of the Maniates who fought the war!? It seems to me that Greeks, on one hand, always emphasize the Greekness and Greek consciousness of the Arvanites ... and if you question this in their face, this or that will happen ... sure ... but then internally many of the 'real' Greeks go long ways to undermine the role of this community in Greece's history, because they don't fit all of the Hellenic criterias.
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Oct 1, 2009 16:58:46 GMT -5
My parents arent poor villagers with no education, no training and on the verge of starvation, enduring desperate poverty. Im not the kind of Albanian your used to in Greece. Im the kind of who works to open a lobby group that will eventually push our interests globally through washington. Albanian Americans are a special breed. Dont compare us with the scum who betrayed their nations and entered yours.
|
|
Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Oct 1, 2009 17:39:37 GMT -5
Kolias was the final tombstone over arvanitika, because he connected arvanitika with albanian nationalistic ideas, and this was proved disasterous for him and his relation with his omoglossous. Also all these "philoarvanites" Albanians that Kolias coperated with and their pseudointerest in arvanitic things contributed in very negatively in the way Arvanites looked their past and especially their language...
I refered to Maniates for example. The battles were given by all the Moraites, Roumeliotes, Eptanesians, Cretans, Makedones etc etc...with the two first groups leading. Let me know better, I can see the battlefields from my village...and we can still tease our nearby arvanites villagers for the acts of their grandparents...not very different of what also the majority of the Arvanites villagers of Attica did...the proskinima, as we call it...the kowtow...during the most critical period of the Revolution... (If your readings are not limited in Arben Lalla's books you would understand what I am saying) And the contribution of the Arvanites was overrated by the second half of the 19th century's historians during the trully propagandist Greece's attempt to persuade our lost...Pelasgian Skipetarous "brothers" to join a bigger Greece. Arvanites were the major players of this game... And to be honest, its still used to show the Arvanites' patriotism...which to the rest of us is self-evident.
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Oct 1, 2009 19:50:45 GMT -5
Maybe, but I think you're giving him too much credit. The final tombstone came before him ... his was a futile attempt at reviving the language, culture & identity of his community, fighting this very demise we're speaking of.
As for his ideas, they hardly comply with Albanian or Greek nationalism. He proposed smth unprecedented, that we're the same nation really ... he is in his own category. Whatever his flaws, I still respect him immensely for speaking out against Serbian atrocities in Kosova in a highly pro-Serbian society.
I have not read A. Lalla's book ... seems like a book one needs to read, him or Dhimiter Grillo's book on the Arvanites.
Either way, if I am not mistaken, the Arvanites you're speaking of are the ones of Vardounia and Lala? Or are you speaking of them all?
This seems far-fetched. It's like an indirect recognition of the existence of Orthodox Albanians. In reality, Greek policy was always to convince our Orthodox brothers of their alleged "Greek" ethnic identity ... pointing out their similiarities with another group of people speaking our language doesn't seem so logical. Rather the Greeks always used the Church to play out the Megali Idea plan.
|
|
|
Post by mendor on Oct 2, 2009 1:14:20 GMT -5
Haha funny Ahtapodi (ohtapodis) athlitis fanari kefalos maniakos garides mikrovio papas paputsi ( gr) are not greek but turkish ...turks has to learn more about their language i think because they have also great ideas of their fake nation. okean (oke e ane) alb zor, me zor (or me to zori) -alb lemoni teli keramidi kuti spanaki etc,ets ,etc, im very skeptic these words are of turkish origin
|
|
Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
|
Post by Patrinos on Oct 2, 2009 4:42:21 GMT -5
I have not read A. Lalla's book ... seems like a book one needs to read, him or Dhimiter Grillo's book on the Arvanites. Either way, if I am not mistaken, the Arvanites you're speaking of are the ones of Vardounia and Lala? Or are you speaking of them all? I'm not talking about Laliotes or Vardouniotes... they were not seen as Arvanites but as Turks and nobody really expected anything from them when it comes to rise against Turks... I was talking about the Arvanites of western Achaia and the villagers of Attica. The first were those who submited to Ibrahim and allied with him, with their leader Nenekos(Νενέκος) until they were crushed by the rest Greeks under Kolokotronis' son outside of Kalavryta... And the latter(Attica) despite their good stance in the beginning they killed their admirable leader Meletis Vasileiou, and helped Kioutachi pasha...especially the two biggest villages-towns of Attica, Menidi and Hasia.... The attempt during the second half of the 19th century was not limited to the orthodox Albanians, but to all Albanians, in a sence that they were not Slavs or newcomers and of course they should "denounce" any relation with Turks and Osmanlilik...all were based to the...pelasgian brotherhood... Greek nationalists of that period are in a big percentage inventors of many parahistoric myths(pelasgian stuff, stuff like Zeus-Zoti, okeanos- oke e ane ;D, etc etc)... Haha funny Ahtapodi (ohtapodis) athlitis fanari kefalos maniakos garides mikrovio papas paputsi ( gr) are not greek but turkish ...turks has to learn more about their language i think because they have also great ideas of their fake nation. okean (oke e ane) alb zor, me zor (or me to zori) -alb lemoni teli keramidi kuti spanaki etc,ets ,etc, im very skeptic these words are of turkish origin Only teli is turkish... papoutsi is persian...the rest 100% Greek.
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Oct 5, 2009 6:52:47 GMT -5
I haven't heard of this, honestly. First time I hear of Nenekos, so I can neither oppose you nor confirm your words. I'll come back on this particular matter if I can find smth on it.
But were all implicated in this collaboration? You mentioned Meletis Vasileiou, who was infact an Arvanitis, a hero. Others too, like Bouboulina, Miaoulis, Kriezis, Androutsos etc did not betray the cause. Neither did the Suliots. Or so I have read. It would be like dismissing all the Greeks of the late Middle Age as Turkish collaborators because of the treacherous Palaiologos brothers (Thomas and Demetrios, not Constantine) who invited the Turks to crush .... the Arvanites! When the Turks came, they suddenly didn't feel like leaving ... and the main people to resist were the Arvanites.
Is this a Greek word? What does it mean in Greek? All this time I thought it was a conjunction of "a" & "po" meaning "or", "or either" ...
|
|
|
Post by todhrimencuri on Oct 5, 2009 7:37:42 GMT -5
The Greek apo has no connection to the Alb ap-o. Apo in Greek means "from", "away from", "apart from". It is also used as a prefix to modify verbs or nouns.
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Oct 5, 2009 11:42:12 GMT -5
Thought so ... this is starting to look more and more like highdyke's list of Albanian-Chechen "cognates" lol.
|
|
PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
|
Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Oct 5, 2009 15:43:43 GMT -5
Athlet is pure Albanian word that means God Is Sportist. At+Let At=God Let=Lighted (SportsMan) I'm a Father Of Sports Father of Olympia Father Of Olympics Father Of Olympiad Father Of Javelin I been doing Decathlon and been world's Champion For Javelin Throw. My JAVELIN Never Land! Truly Myself, PARIS Mysia JESUS The Messiah !!!!!
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 5, 2009 18:37:24 GMT -5
point for Mysia
(hi mike )
|
|
Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
|
Post by Kanaris on Oct 5, 2009 19:01:06 GMT -5
Mysia is God..period....
|
|
rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
|
Post by rex362 on Oct 5, 2009 19:03:56 GMT -5
Its about time you see the light ....
open your soul up and let the shine of Mysia seep inside of it . Mysia can shed light upon the unknown darkness .
AMEN/AMIN and lets all rejoice
(as I pass around the plate for donation$)
|
|
Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
|
Post by Kanaris on Oct 5, 2009 20:32:31 GMT -5
Mysia..tell the orator that Meletis Vasiliou (pure Greek name) was a Greek...
|
|
PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
|
Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Oct 6, 2009 11:21:03 GMT -5
Its about time you see the light .... open your soul up and let the shine of Mysia seep inside of it . Mysia can shed light upon the unknown darkness . AMEN/AMIN and lets all rejoice (as I pass around the plate for donation$)Hey Rex, Amen and Amin are pure Albanian words that means AmUn ( I Am) Myself Holy God Sun_MYSUS Christ The Only One Holy Creator That Created Perfectly The Universe That Created The Heaven That Created The Earth And That Created All Other Holy Creatures. Amen/Amin=AmUn Am+Un (AmAn) Am=Am Un=*ME (The Only One) Let Sing Altogether Amen! Here Video, That's Amen to which another most important Albanian word Amanet is Related and belong too. In albanian Amanet means Supreme-Will. Amanet=Testament The Word was with God and The Word was God. Rejoice and My Blessings to All. Verily!!! Myself, Mysia JESUS The Messiah !!!!!
|
|