|
Post by chalkedon on Aug 13, 2009 6:09:02 GMT -5
Do not edit my post. Like these Slavs that feel Macedonian, these Arvanites feel Greek. Both are contradictions because both sets of people are genetically and linguistically different then that group in which they have claims for (Slavs for Macedonians and Arvanites for Greeks.) If Slavs and Arvanites want to consider themselves Macedonian and Greek respectfully, then let them be -- facts say otherwise though. Greeks will support one bs theory (the Arvanites being Greek) and not the other (Slavs being Macedonians) when it suits their needs. Logick how can you claim with certainity that arvanites were completely of albanian stock ? Geezus man...i know many albanians that have either intermarried greeks or have at least one greek person in their family. I think there is a lot of grey area with the arvanites and its not clear cut as you think. Dont get me wrong..I do support the albanina genetic background they have, but to say they have NO hellenic makeup in them is extreme as well...
|
|
|
Post by chalkedon on Aug 13, 2009 6:18:44 GMT -5
btw...these slavs have no reason to " feel " macedonian other than the fact that they are ashamed of their slavic background. Secondly, cause of communism and the politcal powers at will that wanted access to the aegean ( this is well documented and not made up ).
So what we have here with these skopians is complete fabrication due to propaganda and low self esteem. How you can compare this with the arvanites is beyond me.
Not too mention arvanties fought for us willingly. When did a skopian ever shed blood for us ? They are pu$$ies in the most vagrant way. I hope the earth opens up beneath them. Commie bastards...
|
|
|
Post by Kassandros on Aug 13, 2009 10:16:28 GMT -5
I've seen some BS-fed Greeks making ridiculous claims, but I think you take the prize Basil. I got to applaud you, though it isn't a flattering achievement, it's still smth. ..but still just talking and no counter argument.. I dont want you to tell me what I am and what I'm not. I want from you to reject my argument.. if you have the ability ofcourse. Grow up..
|
|
|
Post by Kassandros on Aug 13, 2009 10:22:49 GMT -5
Thats sth Basil will never accept. He believes his ancestors were all living in his village since the times of Alexander the Great in order to keep their ethnically pure blood clean from outside influences. No single place in Europe worked like that just Basil's village did. Dont even try to change his mind...some people like to live in a dream world. Let them. All of us have 500 forefathers, Basil has only 50. (no offense basil ) Exactly. With a nice argument you might proove me wrong in the future. For the time being.. I brought the arguments about the region where my village is. You just say.. in Europe you cannot see that and bla bla bla. In my village you can. It happend. Now.. do you want me to change what happened... because it didnt happened in the rest of Europe or Greece? And yes.. 500 forefathers is not the case although it would be better due to health reasons on the race.. unfortunately.. in my case.. it does not work like that. Almost all the villagers of these 5 villages are somehow connected if you search deep back their family trees. Of course.. that never happened in the rest of Europe.. and I have to admitt that it shouldnt have happened in my village too.. but I'm sorry. The question is.. do you want to see me telling you what I know from my place.. or do you want to see me telling you what you would love to see from my place?
|
|
donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
|
Post by donnie on Aug 13, 2009 10:31:37 GMT -5
Do not edit my post. Like these Slavs that feel Macedonian, these Arvanites feel Greek. Both are contradictions because both sets of people are genetically and linguistically different then that group in which they have claims for (Slavs for Macedonians and Arvanites for Greeks.) If Slavs and Arvanites want to consider themselves Macedonian and Greek respectfully, then let them be -- facts say otherwise though. Greeks will support one bs theory (the Arvanites being Greek) and not the other (Slavs being Macedonians) when it suits their needs. Logick how can you claim with certainity that arvanites were completely of albanian stock ? Geezus man...i know many albanians that have either intermarried greeks or have at least one greek person in their family. I think there is a lot of grey area with the arvanites and its not clear cut as you think. Dont get me wrong..I do support the albanina genetic background they have, but to say they have NO hellenic makeup in them is extreme as well... Of course there's no way of determining how "pure" these Arvanites were, but that they were predominantly Albanian is undisputed (except among those Greek circles obsessed with uninterrupted racial continuity). The Greeks (Byzantines) viewed them as barbarian foreigners speaking a foreign tongue, as uncultivated savages that made excellent warriors and hunters. Their names and the names of their leaders were Albanian, e.g. Gjin Bua, Peter Liosha, Gjin Zenebishi, Meksi, Buziki, Bohala, Gerbeshi, Mazi, Shkurta, etc. Their very name meant "Albanians" in medieval Greek, from Arvanon (Albania), and where they were settled, their Albanian dialect was preserved until the 20th century, many of its members being monoglot speakers who didn't know a single word in Greek. Likewise, where they settled in Calabria & Sicily, Albanian was spoken, not Greek. In other words, the Arvanites were an Albanian group with a possible (small) Greek/Vlach admixture. Their language and traditions held them separate from the Greeks for centuries, but now, they are indeed thouroughly mixed with Greeks and by no means "pure" anything.
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Aug 13, 2009 10:37:07 GMT -5
Thats sth Basil will never accept. He believes his ancestors were all living in his village since the times of Alexander the Great in order to keep their ethnically pure blood clean from outside influences. No single place in Europe worked like that just Basil's village did. Dont even try to change his mind...some people like to live in a dream world. Let them. All of us have 500 forefathers, Basil has only 50. (no offense basil ) Exactly. With a nice argument you might proove me wrong in the future. For the time being.. I brought the arguments about the region where my village is. You just say.. in Europe you cannot see that and bla bla bla. In my village you can. It happend. Now.. do you want me to change what happened... because it didnt happened in the rest of Europe or Greece? And yes.. 500 forefathers is not the case although it would be better due to health reasons on the race.. unfortunately.. in my case.. it does not work like that. Almost all the villagers of these 5 villages are somehow connected if you search deep back their family trees. Of course.. that never happened in the rest of Europe.. and I have to admitt that it shouldnt have happened in my village too.. but I'm sorry. The question is.. do you want to see me telling you what I know from my place.. or do you want to see me telling you what you would love to see from my place? I want you to be openminded...and to not make broad ridiculous exclusions and conclusions about a period of thousands of years..at that based on granny's fairy tales. We had this discussions already I must say I dont care to convince you anymore, its enough or me when I know the truth...
|
|
|
Post by Kassandros on Aug 13, 2009 13:34:28 GMT -5
Exactly. With a nice argument you might proove me wrong in the future. For the time being.. I brought the arguments about the region where my village is. You just say.. in Europe you cannot see that and bla bla bla. In my village you can. It happend. Now.. do you want me to change what happened... because it didnt happened in the rest of Europe or Greece? And yes.. 500 forefathers is not the case although it would be better due to health reasons on the race.. unfortunately.. in my case.. it does not work like that. Almost all the villagers of these 5 villages are somehow connected if you search deep back their family trees. Of course.. that never happened in the rest of Europe.. and I have to admitt that it shouldnt have happened in my village too.. but I'm sorry. The question is.. do you want to see me telling you what I know from my place.. or do you want to see me telling you what you would love to see from my place? I want you to be openminded...and to not make broad ridiculous exclusions and conclusions about a period of thousands of years..at that based on granny's fairy tales. We had this discussions already I must say I dont care to convince you anymore, its enough or me when I know the truth... Of course Kastoriane.. of course you know the real trouth better than me.. for my village. Sounds normal... It is like me lecturing you about Asia Minor or Pontus region. Sounds normal too.. Why dont you write a letter to them to correct these teachers and scientists Historians who keep up working with the specific race of "Darnaki" that I belong... Tell them your theories... I'm sure they would love the scientific work you have done on our region. Tell them.. "but it didnt happened in the rest of Europe".. ;D ;D www.darnakas.gr/
|
|
|
Post by leshte on Aug 13, 2009 14:37:20 GMT -5
Basil; Kastroianos is correct here. No matter whether you wanna admit it or not.
|
|
|
Post by Kassandros on Aug 13, 2009 15:00:28 GMT -5
Basil; Kastroianos is correct here. No matter whether you wanna admit it or not. Guys do you know what is the problem? I'll tell you; I dont follow the "politically corect" way that says that we all are one. Yes, I like the "all are one" and I like the Balkans just for what they're. I like that mixture of people and today share many things. But... in the case of this specific region that I follow, I have studied more than any historian you can imagine and finnaly. .I experience... yes.. my saying counts more than anyone else's. I'm an expert on this issue for this specific small region. I know its not politically corect to say "I'm pure" and stuff like that.... and I'm among the ones who find it unhealthy a race not to get mixed with new blood..... but what can I say. These people, my people, were really xenophobic all their life. Their world was their village. And when I say their world.. I mean it. My grandmothers dream was to go in the city of Serres (20 km away!) because "she knew one who did it!" For them saying you're from Thessaly or Germany was the same. Even me.. because I got born in Thessaloniki... I was like a stranger for them even if I was there every summer for 20 years in a row for 3 months each time! They have tried to accept me as one of them after 20 years... and my father and mother are from this village! Guys.. you have no idea for how much xenophobic people I speak... I cannot imagine them 100 years ago when there were no roads.. Ok.. never mind. Its a big discussion. Generally I believe in purity of a specific small group of people in some cases. This is one of these cases for me. Politicaly corect or not.. that is my belief. ps. ..and i dont like hypocricy. If we were talking about Bushmans in Africa or Aborigenes in Australia... or some forgoten guys in a forest of New Guinea and we were speaking about their purity.. everybody would be amazed how they preserved their ancestral genes. If we speak about Ntarnakides of Macedonia.. then it is not politcally corect.
|
|
|
Post by leshte on Aug 13, 2009 18:43:47 GMT -5
I think we're talking about two different things here. Basically I told you exactly what you're saying above. I was saying to you prior to the 1800's their village was their world. If you were from Thessaly it was the same as if you were from Germany. That's what I was telling you in my earlier post. As a result there was no Greek Nation prior to the 1800's. Because there was no concept of a greek nation. The village was their world not the nation of Greece. It was the same for all the other countries we know in the world today.
You are talking about purity and lack of mixing. That's an issue that I was not talking about. Maybe you and Kastro had talked about that before.
|
|
|
Post by Kassandros on Aug 14, 2009 3:02:31 GMT -5
yeah.. we had a small talking ..of 1,000 posts..
|
|
|
Post by Kastorianos on Aug 14, 2009 5:00:10 GMT -5
hopeless case...you arent acting politically incorrect as you say "with pride"...but simply stupidly...there is a little difference. Im out of this...
|
|