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Post by telemaque on Aug 10, 2009 14:11:01 GMT -5
Greece is underlined...
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 10, 2009 14:30:13 GMT -5
Interesting video, though exaggerated. I mean, this might become reality only if we assume that the current trends of Muslim immigration and fertility rate remain stagnant or increase, and that the European levels also remain the same. A rise of right-wing popularity in many European countries might indicate a possible reverse of current trends, though this, just as the video's prediction, is just speculation.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 10, 2009 14:32:47 GMT -5
The video relies on pure birthrates, which are not the way things are measured. Its a sort of simple way to predict the future. Many other factors play up as well..
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 10, 2009 14:46:50 GMT -5
Also, even if the percentage of Muslims in Europe remain as they are today, it's still a huge deal, because Europe has indeed changed profoundly. Here in Sweden you would find one of the most homogenous socities in the world merely fifty years ago. Today, more than 1/10 of the population is non-Swedish; all in all, some 1,4 million people are non-ethnic Swedes with Swedish citizenship. Of these, some 450,000 are Muslims, mostly from the Middle East. This is confirmed by your own eyes ... in some districts, immigrants make up the majority. The situation is similiar in many other EU countries. Islam has gained much more ground in Europe through immigration than it ever did through the sword.
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Post by L0gjICK on Aug 10, 2009 14:56:46 GMT -5
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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 10, 2009 15:12:22 GMT -5
Even if Europe becomes Muslims... good for it. It deserves it IMHO.
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Post by chalkedon on Aug 10, 2009 16:12:29 GMT -5
i think white ppl should start flooding muslim countries en masse. That would only be fair...
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 10, 2009 17:20:21 GMT -5
i think white ppl should start flooding muslim countries en masse. That would only be fair... This (whites settling in foreign lands) has already occured. You think Australia was always a predominantly white island? Or that Northern America was always a predominantly white & Protestant continent? Or that Central and South America was always Catholic and Spanish/Portuguese speaking? Now, the difference is that the process has reversed, but not through conquest, but immigration
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yeni
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Post by yeni on Aug 10, 2009 19:22:40 GMT -5
i think white ppl should start flooding muslim countries en masse. That would only be fair... though mostly not whites, but Christians are flooding muslim countries, like Kuwait, Qatar or Bahrain there r 10% Christian now (roughly same percentage as muslims in France or Netherlands for example) due to immigration so i hope u are at least partly satisfied
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Post by srbobran on Aug 10, 2009 19:24:27 GMT -5
Honestly, I think the more Muslims come, the more Europeans (and White Americans) are going to become radicalized. I mean, honestly, immigration will tolerated up to a certain point. Predicting birth rates as far as they have claimed to predict is nearly impossible.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Aug 10, 2009 21:18:15 GMT -5
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 10, 2009 21:30:22 GMT -5
I think the Italians are more racists than the Greeks.
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Post by insomniac on Aug 11, 2009 2:07:53 GMT -5
All i care about is Albania\. As long as Albania has a fertility rate of 2.1, which we do we will be a good stable secular European country. Kosovo too is increasing.
I could care less if Greece, Spain, Italy or whatever turn into arab lands. These countries are already genetically mish mashed.
Other than that, the video is stupid. Whats with the overly dramatic voice?
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bato2
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Post by bato2 on Aug 11, 2009 3:44:20 GMT -5
Here's an article debunking the propaganda video: BBCA big YouTube hit makes startling predictions about the Islamification of Europe over the next few decades and has been viewed more than 10 million times. But can you believe what it says? This seven-and-a-half minute video "Muslim Demographics" uses slick graphics, punctuated with dramatic music, to make some surprising claims, asserting that much of Europe will be majority Muslim in just a few decades. It says that in the past two decades, 90% of all population growth in Europe has been Muslim immigration. In France, it says 30% of those aged 20 and younger are Muslim, with the birth rate for Muslim families massively exceeding that across all families. It says France will be an Islamic Republic within 39 years. In the UK it says the Muslim population has risen 30-fold since the beginning of the 1980s. But are any of the video's statistics true?Of the video's claims that 90% of Europe's population growth since 1990 is due Islamic immigration, only a fragment is true. Immigration is the main driver of population growth according to EU statistics and in some exceptional years, 90% of population growth has been down to net inward migration. But that includes all immigrants coming into the EU, not just Muslims.It is the claims made about individual countries that are most striking. The video says that a typical French family has 1.8 children but that French Muslim families have 8.1 children. How we check the figures No source is given for this information and the French government doesn't collect statistics by religion. So it is impossible to say what the precise fertility rates among different religious groups in France are. But no country on earth has such a high fertility rate and in Algeria and Morocco, the two nations which send the largest numbers of Muslim immigrants to France, the fertility rate is 2.38, according to the UN's 2008 figures.In the Netherlands, according to the video, half of all newborns are Muslim, and in 15 years half the population will be Muslim. But the Dutch office of statistics estimates that Muslims make up only 5% of the population. For Dutch Muslim women to produce half the nation's babies, they would have to be giving birth at at least 14 times the rate of their non-Muslim neighbours.Muslims at prayers The Muslim population of Europe has risen, but not as fast as alleged Is 25% of the Belgian population Muslim, as the video asserts? No. The Belgian office of statistics points to a 2008 study which suggests the real figure is just 6%.The video also states that the Muslim population of the UK has grown 30-fold in the past 30 years. They get the figure by estimating that the British Muslim population has risen from 82,000 to 2.5 million. The firm data is in the 2001 census, which counted close to 1.6 million Muslims in England and Wales. That number will have risen since 2001 so 2.5 million is not impossible. The 2011 census will be looked to for clarification.
However, according to Dr Andrew Hinde, a demographer at Southampton University, the 82,000 figure is a gross under-estimate. "If you take the 1981 census there was no question asked on religious belief," he says, "but if you take those born in Pakistan and Bangladesh as a minimum estimate of the number of Muslims in 1981, it's about 300,000."That would mean the growth rate has been significantly slower than the video suggests. But the video doesn't just rely on statistics, it also uses an official Government statement. It quotes it as saying: "The fall in German population can no longer be stopped. Its downward spiral is no longer reversible. It will be a Muslim state by the year 2050." The statement in question was made by then vice-president of the Federal Statistics Office, Walter Radermacher, who is now chief statistician of the European Union. He says that while it is true he said Germany's population was in decline, the last part of the quote [in italics] is just an invention. He said nothing about Germany becoming a Muslim state."The quotation which reads as if the German government believed that Germany will become a Muslim state is simply not true," he says. "There is no source which can be quoted that the German government has published such an expression or opinion." Inexact science The video also claims the German government believes the number of Muslims in Europe will double to 104 million. Mr Radermacher adds: "That is not true. The German government does not believe that the Muslim population will double in the next 40 or 50 years. There are no reliable sources that give a proof for that assumption."Population projection is an inexact science. No-one knows how many Muslims will be living in Europe or anywhere else by 2050. The current trends suggest that by 2050 Europe will have a bigger proportion of Muslims, although nothing like the level suggested in the video. But the big assumption here is current trends. Levels of immigration and fertility change over time. It is certainly true that immigrant communities often have higher fertility rates but over time these usually fall into line with the indigenous population. This might not happen with Muslim immigrants. But nobody can know and that's why, according to Dr Hinde, it is so hard to guess the future. "In the 1930s there were population projections made of the UK that by the end of the century the UK population would be 20 million. Well, it turned out to be 50 million."That's how far out you can get when you're moving 40 or 50 years down the line and not taking into account the uncertainty." More or Less is produced in association with the Open University. news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8189231.stm
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 11, 2009 5:30:09 GMT -5
Insomaniac..at first instance you sound like you know something.... but you really don't.... I fail to see the mish mash you talk about..Travel to the islands in Greece and let me know if you see any of this?
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Post by chalkedon on Aug 11, 2009 6:17:37 GMT -5
i think white ppl should start flooding muslim countries en masse. That would only be fair... This (whites settling in foreign lands) has already occured. You think Australia was always a predominantly white island? Or that Northern America was always a predominantly white & Protestant continent? Or that Central and South America was always Catholic and Spanish/Portuguese speaking? Now, the difference is that the process has reversed, but not through conquest, but immigration Ok..bad example I used. Im referring to this Allahu Akbar crap...I think it doesnt belong in Europe, USA, or Australia for that matter. If they want to come then they have to refine their religion in line with their host countries and modern day realities. The catholics did it, the protestants did it and so should the muslims. End of story....
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Post by chalkedon on Aug 11, 2009 6:20:08 GMT -5
i think white ppl should start flooding muslim countries en masse. That would only be fair... though mostly not whites, but Christians are flooding muslim countries, like Kuwait, Qatar or Bahrain there r 10% Christian now (roughly same percentage as muslims in France or Netherlands for example) due to immigration so i hope u are at least partly satisfied yeni...i dont know about the flooding the areas. I do know that most churches are not authorized to operate in those areas. Most white ppl you are referring to are probably businessmen or tourists. Dubai is a good example...although a modern city they still are very very conservative in comparison to european countries.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Aug 11, 2009 8:13:48 GMT -5
This (whites settling in foreign lands) has already occured. You think Australia was always a predominantly white island? Or that Northern America was always a predominantly white & Protestant continent? Or that Central and South America was always Catholic and Spanish/Portuguese speaking? Now, the difference is that the process has reversed, but not through conquest, but immigration Ok..bad example I used. Im referring to this Allahu Akbar crap...I think it doesnt belong in Europe, USA, or Australia for that matter. If they want to come then they have to refine their religion in line with their host countries and modern day realities. The catholics did it, the protestants did it and so should the muslims. End of story.... Well, the Native Americans would probably argue the same thing about the whites; they don't belong to the Americas! But this didn't stop the whites from conquoring the "New World" and changing its demographic makeup for all eternity. Now, only 2,5 million people out of some 300 million are registered as Native Americans. The same goes for the demographic history and reality of Australia. It's not a matter of subjective thoughts of what belongs where, but in the end, who is strong enough to carry out his ambitions and dominate others. Islam tried to conquor Europe with arms, firstly with the Moors who couldn't go beyond Iberia, and secondly with the Ottomans, who were halted in Vienna. Now, there's a different way of expanding into the heart of the Christian world, namely immigration. But whether the outcome of this immigration will be as severe and profound as that video tries to argue, I doubt it.
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Post by L0gjICK on Aug 11, 2009 8:25:59 GMT -5
This (whites settling in foreign lands) has already occured. You think Australia was always a predominantly white island? Or that Northern America was always a predominantly white & Protestant continent? Or that Central and South America was always Catholic and Spanish/Portuguese speaking? Now, the difference is that the process has reversed, but not through conquest, but immigration Ok..bad example I used. Im referring to this Allahu Akbar crap...I think it doesnt belong in Europe, USA, or Australia for that matter. If they want to come then they have to refine their religion in line with their host countries and modern day realities. The catholics did it, the protestants did it and so should the muslims. End of story.... Who is to say that the Arabs will turn the European states into a purely religious one? But I do agree, some of these Arabs do have problem with Secular ideas and need to be more accepting of others' religions. Maybe Greece should do the same.
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Post by luarasi on Aug 11, 2009 9:37:14 GMT -5
even if what it was shown in the clip was to become true, Islam will get inhibited in European culture (just like Christianity did) and become less of rigid doctrine to some version of Bektashi like Islam.
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