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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Nov 5, 2009 0:17:33 GMT -5
Is the map wrong? It isn't. Don't be so sensitive. Because according to your friend Novi, I am living in one of the few Bulgarian cities inhabited by Bulgarians. The rest are Serbs. This is some stance, don't you think? No it isn’t wrong, nor did I say it was. Please feel free to take the eastern Serbia. It’s ironic but really they are not proper Serbs even though they are the majority in Serbia proper. They’re starting to come around anyway. Srbobran always wanted to be a Bulgarian so he can lead the way. Reci da si se samo salio?
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Post by srbobran on Nov 5, 2009 13:55:54 GMT -5
You want real irony, I have some Serbianized Vlach clearly insecure about his roots telling me, a Serb of Montenegrin and old Serbian stock (ie. Serb in the truest sense) telling me that I don't qualify as a Serb. This same asshole, on another thread was willing to accept a black guy as a Serb yet he won't accept me, a South Slav who speaks Serbian, observes Serbian customs, knows infinately moreabout Serbian history, and has a very old Serbian lineage. Now that's irony.
Whats even more ironic is that this same dickhead talks about Kosovo and how important it is to Serbia yet he refuses to accept the Serbs of Kosovo as real Serbs. You are scum and a hippocrite in the truest sense of the word.
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Post by ljubotan on Nov 5, 2009 15:06:48 GMT -5
Look at where Kosovo is on a map and then were is southern/eastern Serbia? If Serbs of those places and Sar Mountains aren't Serbs then you're agreeing that Kosovo is not Serbian!
The truest and biggest Serbs are the ones from the south, because they never ran away even through the toughest times. Its because of them that we still have a fighting chance to claim Kosovo today as Serbian!
This is completely ashame that we're taking about this! India has how many different languages and dialects??? Yes, they're all still Indian. We're going to denounce any Serb that doesn't use the 7case system as non Serb because someone from Bosnia said so?? Serbs of Bosna should not act out to loud, because you weren't surrounded by 90% Bosnian Muslims. The outcome would have been much different if it were!
The most famous churches are not in RS/Bosna, they're in Kosovo.
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gavrilo
Amicus
Vi ste svi banane
Posts: 840
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Post by gavrilo on Nov 5, 2009 19:57:07 GMT -5
yea man i think arsenije just lieks pissing srbobran off...both are proud serbs as they should be, i doubt he was serious.
most serbs dont think like that, and if they do, they probably follow the ldp lmao.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Nov 5, 2009 21:18:51 GMT -5
You want real irony, I have some Serbianized Vlach clearly insecure about his roots telling me, a Serb of Montenegrin and old Serbian stock (ie. Serb in the truest sense) telling me that I don't qualify as a Serb. This same A*****e, on another thread was willing to accept a black guy as a Serb yet he won't accept me, a South Slav who speaks Serbian, observes Serbian customs, knows infinately moreabout Serbian history, and has a very old Serbian lineage. Now that's irony. Whats even more ironic is that this same dickhead talks about Kosovo and how important it is to Serbia yet he refuses to accept the Serbs of Kosovo as real Serbs. You are scum and a hippocrite in the truest sense of the word. Face it mate you’re a Bulgarian. No amount of carrying on about black people is going to change that.
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Post by srbobran on Nov 5, 2009 21:39:43 GMT -5
Whatever. Any sane Serbian person would sooner accept a Bulgarian as his kin that a Black man, that alone is proof that you're an idiot.
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Nov 5, 2009 22:12:43 GMT -5
Judging someone solely based on race is played out. Srbobran this type of stuff is better left in the 1800s.
I personally would accept anyone, regardless of race, as a Bulgarian dependent on whether that person is a law abiding citizen that contributes to the development of the country and the well being of its citizens.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Nov 5, 2009 22:18:53 GMT -5
Judging someone solely based on race is played out. Srbobran this type of stuff is better left in the 1800s. I personally would accept anyone, regardless of race, as a Bulgarian dependent on whether that person is a law abiding citizen that contributes to the development of the country and the well being of its citizens. Yeps that right. Don’t know why that’s so hard for him to understand. Especially since he’s always wanted to be a Bulgarian. Srbobran is a racialist which I think in the context of the Balkans is particularly stupid because of the massive amount of diversity & overlap. I’m an ethnicicist.
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Post by srbobran on Nov 5, 2009 22:42:42 GMT -5
No I'm not a racialist. And trust me, if I've always wanted to be Bulgarian than I wouldn't bother calling my self a Serb at all , I would call myself a Bulgarian. There isn't anybody holding a gun to my head saying that I have to a Serb, I declare myself as such because I choose too (not to mention the fact that my native tongue is Serbian, my parents and entire ancestry is Serbian etc.) There is nothing holding me back from callling myself a Bulgarian so if that's what I wanted to declare myself as, then why the hell wouldn't I?
I'm just saying that its absolutely ridiculous that he would accept a Black man as a Serb won't accept a Serb from Kosovo as a Serb. Its just plain stupid.
Tell me, do you support Kosovo's independence?
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ivo
Amicus
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Post by ivo on Nov 5, 2009 23:25:00 GMT -5
What is Arsenije's reasoning behind this, let's hear him out.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Nov 5, 2009 23:44:56 GMT -5
What is Arsenije's reasoning behind this, let's hear him out. I don’t know where he got this from. I don’t even see how its relevant. An ethnicity revolves around a common set of beliefs, not someone’s genotype. I didn’t say that eastern Serbs are not Serbs. What I think is that they are not original Serbs, though by that I don’t mean Bulgarians. I just like to hang sh!t on Srbobran & call him a Bulgarian because of various things he has said that I disagree with. Just as the Bulgars subjected or allied with the existing slavs and Tribals so to did the Serbs & I really think that’s who the Torlaks were. Some aligned with Bulgars/ians, some with Serbs. The language may use Bulgarian grammar but it’s more intelligible with Serbian. It’s total bs to just claim them as Bulgarians. I think there are ones that have always been aligned with Serbs. The practice of slava shows this influence.
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ivo
Amicus
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Post by ivo on Nov 6, 2009 0:00:16 GMT -5
Arsenije, are you of Vlach origin like Srbobran claims?
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Nov 6, 2009 0:31:09 GMT -5
No it isn’t wrong, nor did I say it was. Please feel free to take the eastern Serbia. It’s ironic but really they are not proper Serbs even though they are the majority in Serbia proper. They’re starting to come around anyway. Srbobran always wanted to be a Bulgarian so he can lead the way. Reci da si se samo salio? Jel moram da napisem na Engleskom da bi mi odgovorio?
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Nov 6, 2009 0:36:35 GMT -5
Arsenije, are you of Vlach origin like Srbobran claims? He's just saying it to give me crap because I'm from Bosnian Krajina after I called him a Bulgarian. Depends. I think Vlach originally meant Roman language speakers & I think these people were also the natives: Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians for the most part. I am not one of these Vlachs. Later on the term meant farmers. That's why Serbian demographics in Krajina & north west Bosnia show a massive rural class. The furthest I trace my heritage is to eastern Montenegro somewhere around 1900 so I am of original Serbian stock but then there are some other things mixed in.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Nov 6, 2009 0:44:58 GMT -5
Reci da si se samo salio? Jel moram da napisem na Engleskom da bi mi odgovorio? Pa o cemu mi pricamo ovdje sa Bugarima cijelo vrijeme? Rekao sam da mislim da istocni Srbi (Torlaci) su bili Tracani ko su savezili/pridruzili sa Srbima. Tako da jesu Srbi ali nisu originalni Srbi... Ali Srbobran mi dosadi od kad sam poceo ovdje zato ga malo foliram.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Nov 6, 2009 0:51:38 GMT -5
Jel moram da napisem na Engleskom da bi mi odgovorio? Pa o cemu mi pricamo ovdje sa Bugarima cijelo vrijeme? Rekao sam da mislim da istocni Srbi (Torlaci) su bili Tracani ko su savezili/pridruzili sa Srbima. Tako da jesu Srbi ali nisu originalni Srbi. Mene zanima ko si ti da odredjujes ko su pravi Srbi a ko ne? Inace Srbi koji govore torlak zive i u juznoj Srbiji. Jel i juzna Srbija moze da se da Bugarima? Po tvojoj logici Srbi koji govore ijekavicom su u stvari Hrvati a "pravi" Srbi su oni koji govore ekavicom?
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Post by srbobran on Nov 6, 2009 14:42:33 GMT -5
Oh so now it was just a personal insult directed towards me? BS. You said "give eastern Serbia to Bulgaria because they aren't proper Serbs anyways". It wasn't a personal insult directed towards me, rather this is just you trying to coverup the fact that your claims are simply stupid. Its clear as day that you still look down on Kosovo and Southern Serbs as being "Bulgarian", you can pretend that you don't, but I know that you do.
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ivo
Amicus
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Post by ivo on Nov 7, 2009 13:27:55 GMT -5
It’s as if you are trying to put him down for trying to discuss history objectively. Not all people who call themselves Serbs today were Serbs in the past.
Many Torlaks identify as Bulgarians and we accept them as such. I think that most Torlaks prior to the formation of Yugoslavia identified as Bulgarians. And it would appear that the difference between the Torlaks that identify as Bulgarians and those that identify as Serbians is merely political.
This is completely different, as ‘ijekavicom’ and ‘ekavicom’ are more likes dialects of the same language Serbo-Croatian. When it comes to the Torlak language/dialect, grammatically it resembles Bulgarian (and Macedonian coincidentally) and it’s Serbian influence is mostly with regards to vocabulary.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Nov 9, 2009 6:53:53 GMT -5
Asen, Novi is not a racist. He might argue with Bulgarians but I'm sure Ruse & Ioan would testify that he far from hates Bulgarians as he's made well wishes to them a number of time in the past. He's also a Torlak so I'm sure he must feel some similarity between Serbs & Bulgarians. I think that he essentially views Bulgars & Bulgarians as two different things. He believes the Bulgars subjected and persecuted the slavs and hence he associates anything slavic as being Serbs or closer to. Anyway, 97% of Serbs simply view Bulgarians as Orthodox/slavic brothers.
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Post by rusebg on Nov 9, 2009 7:15:33 GMT -5
I can not testify that.
Not at all. Or at least I haven't met something similar to that in any of his posts.
So do I. Actually, none of the present day Balkan nations is what it used to be in the beginning but no one has managed so far to explain Novi that Slavs took part in the formation of the Bulgarian nation. If you can do that, Arsenije, try it. Do you think that statements like 'Bulgarian is a Turkic language' show that Novi makes any differentiation? I don't think so.
This is an understatement, to say it softly. Hey, he considers the three major Bulgarian cities as being Serbian ones, alongside numerous towns and villages. Let us try to be objective and judge the person by what he posts, not by whether he is polite or not.
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