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Post by ljubotan on Jan 6, 2010 17:41:16 GMT -5
Where do the following words originate from and do they exist in Southern/Eastern Serbia?
- sakam - sega - razbiram - bratuchet (cousin)
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 6, 2010 20:41:40 GMT -5
Ljubotan, how goes it! I don't know where they originate from exactly, but here are the most common Bulgarian equivalents: - iskam - sega - razbiram - bratovchet
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2010 5:52:56 GMT -5
Ljubotan, when it comes to languages, yes, l admit, i'm no expert, but l do understand enough serbian and even vardarian to get by. The top two words arn't used in the 'torlak' dialect.
For Asen:
what the hell does 'ONZI' mean in Bulgarski ezik?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 7, 2010 6:20:11 GMT -5
The top two words arn't used in the 'torlak' dialect. As a matter of fact, in the Serbian Big Brother 2009, the guy with the greatest difficulty in speaking slavomakedonian to Violeta (from Skoplje) was Manuel (from Pirot). Anyways, even the Bosnian players, didn't show the slightest trouble in communicating perfectly with Violeta and her sister Kristina.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2010 6:35:19 GMT -5
Ljubotan, when it comes to languages, yes, l admit, i'm no expert, but l do understand enough serbian and even vardarian to get by. The top two words arn't used in the 'torlak' dialect. For Asen: what the hell does 'ONZI' mean in Bulgarski ezik? onzi in Bulgarian means "that guy".
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2010 6:36:14 GMT -5
Ljubotan, how goes it! I don't know where they originate from exactly, but here are the most common Bulgarian equivalents: - iskam - sega - razbiram - bratovchet sakam is also used in some dialects, including eastern Bulgarian ones.
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Post by rusebg on Jan 7, 2010 12:01:56 GMT -5
The most Serbian of all names. More Serbian than Nenad or Nebojsa.
Hats off.
Ljubotan, I think you should make much longer list with common words so we could compare the similarities and the differencies.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 7, 2010 12:14:44 GMT -5
Ljubotan, when it comes to languages, yes, l admit, i'm no expert, but l do understand enough serbian and even vardarian to get by. The top two words arn't used in the 'torlak' dialect. For Asen: what the hell does 'ONZI' mean in Bulgarski ezik? onzi in Bulgarian means "that guy". Yup, that's what it means. And, 'onaia' is the feminen versoin. Also, 'onzi' can be said as 'onia' and could also be used with the meaning of 'that one'. For example, I could say 'onzi Serbin Novi e golem idiot' Ioan, thanks for bringing this up. Yes, 'sakam' is still in use in some parts of Bulgaria. From what I know, it is mostly in the country side areas. However, 'iskam' is the term used most commonly by the media.
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Post by ljubotan on Jan 7, 2010 14:39:06 GMT -5
stol (table) kuce (dog) tatko (dad) majka (mom) sestra (sister) brat (brother) unuk (grandchild) sestric (nephew from sister) sestricna (niece from sister) striko (uncle - dad's brother) tetka (aunt) tetin (uncle ) stolica (chair) tanir (plate) cinija (bowl) cardak (balcony) planina (mountain) pare (money) cese, novcanik (wallet) kufer (suitcase) kniga (book) papir (paper) plajvas (pencil) dedo (grandfather) baba (grandmother) zit (brother in law) tasta (mother in law) tast (father in law) svekarva (I think daughter in law?) zaova (what mothers of married couples refer to eachother) patos, parket (wood floors) karpet (carpet) sabajlje (monring) pladnje (afternoon) vecer (evening) danaska (today) tomorrow (jutre) prekojutre (day after tomorrow) vecerva (tonight) kola (car) pop (priest) crkva (church) polog, dolinja (valley) reka (creek) jezero (lake) voda (water) pendzer (window) kondure (shoes) sapon (soap) soba (room) krevet (bed) kaladon (toothpaste) krof (roof) zid (wall) konj (horse) macka (cat) vuk (wolf) vojska (army) kupatilo (bathtub) cesma (sink) miris (perfume) oko (eye) nos (nose) zobi (teeth) ushe (ear) jajca (egg) kujnja (kitchen) grad (city) selo (village) vlada (government) stavi, turi (to place, put) zemi (to take) ostavi (to leave something in place, or place back) idi (to go) cekaj (to wait) vozi (to drive) pisi (to write) spi, spavaj (to sleep) razbudi (to wake up) bidi (to be) odmor (vacation) plaza (beach) suncaj (to tan) trcaj (to run) vikaj (to yell) zeli (to desire) gadno (ugly) ubavo (pretty) prijatno (enjoy) molim (please) izvini (apology) love (ljubav) magare (donkey) zmija (snake) jagnje (lamb) prase (pig) ceselj (comb) kosa (hair) carsav (bed sheets) cebe (blanket) montil (long coat) dzember (sweater) sako (blazer, suit coat) kosulja (dress shirt) masna (suit tie, bow tie) kajis (belt) kredanac (cabinet) fijoka (drawer) umoran sam (I'm tired)
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jan 7, 2010 16:16:43 GMT -5
stol (table) bg masa kuce (dog) bg kuce tatko (dad) bg tatko majka (mom) bg majka sestra (sister) bg sestra brat (brother) bg brat unuk (grandchild) bg vnuk sestric (nephew from sister) bg dont know just nephew plemenik sestricna (niece from sister) bg dont know just niece plemeniza striko (uncle - dad's brother) bg chicho tetka (aunt) bg tetka, strinka (similar to striko) tetin (uncle ) bg chicho stolica (chair) bg stol tanir (plate) bg cinija cinija (bowl) bg kupa cardak (balcony) bg cardak, balkon planina (mountain) bg planina pare (money) bg pari cese, novcanik (wallet) bg portfeil kufer (suitcase) bg kufar kniga (book) bg kniga (bulgar word btw) papir (paper) bg hartia plajvas (pencil) bg moliv dedo (grandfather) bg dyado baba (grandmother) bg baba zit (brother in law) bg zet tasta (mother in law) bg tasta tast (father in law) bg tast svekarva (I think daughter in law?) bg svekarva zaova (what mothers of married couples refer to eachother) bg svatya patos, parket (wood floors) bg parket karpet (carpet) bg kilim sabajlje (monring) bg sutrin sabalyan (old) pladnje (afternoon) bg obed pladne (old) vecer (evening) bg vecer danaska (today) bg dnes tomorrow (jutre) bg utre prekojutre (day after tomorrow) bg vdrugiden vecerva (tonight) bg vecer kola (car) bg kola pop (priest) bg pop crkva (church) bg crkva polog, dolinja (valley) bg dolina reka (creek) bg reka jezero (lake) bg ezero voda (water) bg voda pendzer (window) bg prozorez kondure (shoes) bg obuvki, kunduri (old) sapon (soap) bg sapun soba (room) bg staya krevet (bed) bg krevat, leglo kaladon (toothpaste) bg pasta krof (roof) bg pokriv zid (wall) bg zid, stena konj (horse) bg kon macka (cat) bg kotka, macka vuk (wolf) bg vulk vojska (army) bg vojska kupatilo (bathtub) bg cesma (sink) bg cesma miris (perfume) bg parfum, miris oko (eye) bg oko nos (nose) bg nos zobi (teeth) bg zubi ushe (ear) bg uho jajca (egg) bg jajca kujnja (kitchen) bg kuhnja grad (city) bg grad selo (village) bg selo vlada (government) bg upravlenie stavi, turi (to place, put) bg slagam, turgam zemi (to take) bg vzemam ostavi (to leave something in place, or place back) bg ostavi idi (to go) bg idi cekaj (to wait) bg cakaj vozi (to drive) bg vozi pisi (to write) bg pishe spi, spavaj (to sleep) bg spi razbudi (to wake up) bg razbudi, subudi bidi (to be) bg da bude odmor (vacation) bg otmora, pochivka plaza (beach) bg plaz suncaj (to tan) bg pecha trcaj (to run) bg ticha, turcha vikaj (to yell) bg vika zeli (to desire) bg zelaya gadno (ugly) bg gadno ubavo (pretty) bg hubavo prijatno (enjoy) bg prijatno molim (please) bg molya izvini (apology) bg izvinyavai love (ljubav) bg lubov magare (donkey) bg magare zmija (snake) bg zmija jagnje (lamb) bg agne prase (pig) bg prase ceselj (comb) bg greben kosa (hair) bg kosa carsav (bed sheets) bg carsav cebe (blanket) bg odealo montil (long coat) bg palto dzember (sweater) bg pulover sako (blazer, suit coat) bg sako kosulja (dress shirt) bg.......... masna (suit tie, bow tie) bg vratovruzka kajis (belt) bg kolan kredanac (cabinet) bg kabinet
umoran sam (I'm tired) bg umoren sum
Conclusion: dialects of one language after 100 years of serbanizing Macedonian.
[/quote]
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Post by tyreke on Jan 7, 2010 16:44:25 GMT -5
Sounds like the words used by ljubotan are PURE Serbian
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Post by rusebg on Jan 7, 2010 19:29:22 GMT -5
Sounds like this Tyreke, whatever his previos nick was, is a total jerk.
Now... Some of the words Ljubotan has listed are not Macedonian at all. They are Serbian. Like vuk or zeli or kupatilo. The Macedonian ones are different. And we have to compare this list with Serbian equivalent, it follows like that:
kuce: pas tatko - otac, this one being old Bulgarian word that has survived, just like bashta, meaning the same. planina - the same in Bulgarian, gora in Serbian. Gora meaning forest in Bulgarian. And i am lazy to continue.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2010 20:32:40 GMT -5
"Hats off."
Hence why readers find me more credible, l'm honest.
Gora in serbian means either mountain or forest. Planina in serbian can mean mountains, hills or highlands.
Generally pas is used in serbian but l generally use kuce or ker.
The list Ljubotan has provided is Torlakian Serbian, spoken in a large chunk of northern vardar (Kratovo, Kumanovo, sv. nikola etc...)
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Jan 7, 2010 20:51:09 GMT -5
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2010 21:01:10 GMT -5
^ Serbian has a heap of Greek borrowings
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2010 21:13:27 GMT -5
"Conclusion: dialects of one language after 100 years of serbanizing fyromian." Geez your a lier Ioan I want to ask you Ioan, did serbs serbianised the Yat to e, did serbs phonetically serbianise vardarian, did serbs introduce a third definite article because the bulgars only have two etc..... Your extremely lucky because Torlakian was almost chosen as the state language for vardar, the reason why it wasn't chosen was that Torlakian is almost the same as standard serbian, hence why they opted for the veles dialect, most differentiated from serbian and bulgarian.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jan 7, 2010 21:16:03 GMT -5
"The most Serbian of all names. More Serbian than Nenad or Nebojsa."
Yes, but its been used by serbs for awhile, do you know of Manuel Ivac?
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Jan 8, 2010 0:50:07 GMT -5
It seems to me that the most differences are found in words that are non-Slavic in origin; ie. words of English/French, Turkish, or Greek origin.
And of course, we have the Serb influenced words such as ‘vuk’.
papir (paper) bg hartia - I’ve heard ‘papir’ being used in the Plovdiv region occasionally, except it it’s used as slang for toilet paper ‘gàz papir’
dedo (grandfather) bg dyado - I’ve heard some people from Pazardjik, I think, using dedo instead of diado/dyado
zaova (what mothers of married couples refer to eachother) bg svatya - The word in Bulgarian is ‘zulva’, and I’m not all that good with all that family stuff, ie. the brother of the mother or the father etc. but as far as I know, it’s what the wives of two brothers call each other
karpet (carpet) bg kilim - Karpet is clearly English, while kilim seems Turkish. I’ve also heard moket, and karpet as well, however, the people I know that use ‘karpet’ in Bulgarian know English and have been outside of Bulgaria. So they may be making the association with English.
danaska (today) bg dnes - As far as I know, dnes is the short form, while dneska is the full word.
kondure (shoes) bg obuvki, kunduri (old) - Also ‘chipitsi’
kupatilo (bathtub) bg - Vana?
ushe (ear) bg uho - Uho (singular), Ushi (plural)
vlada (government) bg upravlenie - The English term ‘parliament’ is also used I believe.
stavi, turi (to place, put) bg slagam, turgam - Ostavi is also used, but usually when you are telling someone to put something somewhere or leave someone/something alone; ie. Ostavi kundurite
zemi (to take) bg vzemam - Vzemi or zemi is used when you are telling someone to take something; ie. Zemi knigata
pisi (to write) bg pishe - Pishi is used when you are telling someone to write.
plaza (beach) bg plaz - Plaza = the beach
vikaj (to yell) bg vika - Vikaj is used when you are telling someone to yell.
love (ljubav) bg lubov - obich as well
kosulja (dress shirt) bg.......... - I’ve rarely heard this word, however, in the Plovdiv region a ‘koshula, I think is used to refer to some sort of an over garment, usually something that is considered to be warmer clothing. Dress shirt, I believe, would be ‘riza’.
kajis (belt) bg kolan - My grandfather, bog da go prosti, used ‘kajis/kaish’ synonymously to ‘kolan’ and I’ve heard older people from the same area leaning toward the use of ‘kaish’ rather than ‘kolan’. I think that ‘kaish’ mostly refers to a belt that is informal while a belt that you’d use for a suit for example you’d use ‘kolan’. Kolan is the much more commonly used term.
May be in Torlak it means forest, but all the Serbs that I’ve met, have told me that ‘gora’ means mountain. Heh, throughout most of my childhood I always thought that Crna Gora meant ‘Black Forest’; but the English name Monte Negro is a dead giveaway of the right name. Oh, and BTW, I think Ruse already mentioned this, but mountain in Bulgarian is ‘planina’, while ‘gora’ means forest.
Good to see you prefer the Macedonian/Bulgarian word over the Serbian one, you are Torlak after all.
And coincidentally, the vast majority of these terms are practically identical to the terms used in Bulgaria.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 8, 2010 2:48:45 GMT -5
Only patos is Greek. Krevet is not a greek word, the greek one is KLINH miris is an indoeuropen ancient slavic word... Is dar=dwro, zivot=zwh, zena=gynh, mis=mys also greek? It is just that Greeks and Slavs and Germans and Latins were one in the same 20,000 years ago...
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 8, 2010 2:54:55 GMT -5
The most Serbian of all names. More Serbian than Nenad or Nebojsa. Maybe his surname should help a little bit here: Manuel Stojanović
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