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Post by ljubotan on Mar 16, 2010 9:42:45 GMT -5
hey guys, i attended a Bulgarian Orthodox church service this past Sunday with my Bulgarian friend, and I didn't understand one word! They are very disorganized and unserious compared to when i go to the Serbian church. The parish that attends the Serb church are very proper when entering a church, whereas in 'this' particular Bulgarian church it was not. The other thing I noticed is Bulgarians when making the sign of the cross do it 3 times simultaneously like the Macedonians do it; however, Serbs (majority people) do it once when making the sign of the cross (entering/exiting church, lighting candles, infront of icons). Also Serbs kiss their candles right before they light them, where Bulgarians and Macedonians do not.
I know the literugy is in Church Slavonic; however, when the priest was speaking to the parish I was lost. Majority looked slavic but a couple looked Greek/Turkish looking.
I will say that by appearance Bulgarians do resemble Macedonians more than Serbians. Serbians (besides being tall) have straight noses that are pointy, whereas Bulgarians and Macedonians have a bump on top of their nose and have a distinguished rounded finish at the end. Just little things I noticed as I observed (of course there are exceptions).
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Mar 16, 2010 10:02:54 GMT -5
The similarities between Bulgarians and Macedonians are still there.. even today, genetics are difficult to escape. They are a testament to our commonly shared past.
I wonder what “Professor” Pazar will come up with this time.
PS: Lujbotan, I barely understand what they say in church.
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Post by ljubotan on Mar 16, 2010 11:12:46 GMT -5
I do not deny the similarities that are obvious to me regardless of my family background.
I attended more so out of curiosity, but also am not against attending in the future.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Mar 16, 2010 16:38:26 GMT -5
Why do you assume that Macedonians have to look either Bulgarian or Serbian? Maybe we actually look unique in our own way?
Also, you should have posted this in the Bulgarian section.
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Post by rusebg on Mar 16, 2010 16:58:42 GMT -5
ROFL!!!! My nose is the same ;D
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 16, 2010 17:54:51 GMT -5
"even today, genetics are difficult to escape"
Why do you keep persisting, Asen?, you've even seen the genetic map which serbs and fyromians are closer then Bulgari. Bulgari have a Turanid racial component plus central asian genes.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 16, 2010 18:09:40 GMT -5
"I will say that by appearance Bulgarians do resemble Macedonians more than Serbians. Serbians (besides being tall) have straight noses that are pointy, whereas Bulgarians and Macedonians have a bump on top of their nose and have a distinguished rounded finish at the end. Just little things I noticed as I observed (of course there are exceptions)."
The pontid racial type gets stronger and stronger as one approaches Greece. Put it this way, the pontid type, starts off at southern and south/eastern serbia, it gradually becomes more and more common through fyrom until we reach greece. Likewise, in Romania, it starts there and gets stronger and more common when we pass through Bulgarska to Greece. The Dinaric race which is of the majority in Serbia, is commonest in western fyrom, while the Pontid in eastern fyrom. Ljubo, it doesn't mean pontid equates to Bulgarin or Dinarid = serb, its just a regional thing like how geography can change in a nation from mountainous to desert etc...
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Mar 17, 2010 0:56:36 GMT -5
Nikola, it was just an observation.. and it seems to be relatively accurate. Do keep in mind that there is a significant number of Bulgarians who have originated from Macedonia, they however, have always identified as Bulgarians. Heh, so even if you deny all the facts of the past, we’d still be one and the same. There’s no escaping the dirty Bulgars, heh Don’t make it personal. If you’d like, you can phrase the statement differently.. Bulgarians look like Macedonians. There, is that better? Possibly, but I’d say Ljubotan’s observations factor into the discussions we’ve been having regarding Macedonia and Macedonians. I think this is a credible location for this post. There are different studies that show different results.. but that’s not the point. Meet some Macedonians, meet some Bulgarians, and meet some Serbians and compare if you’d like. Oh, and I know you are notorious for drawing conclusions on tiny bits and pieces of information.. try not to do the same in this situation. If you do actually compare for yourself, go to an event where you can see a whole bunch of people, don’t base your conclusions on a select few. Heh, Pazar “the genetic scientist”.. ROFL!!! So according to your quote above, the racial origins of a particular people is irrelevant. The thing that matters is how they see themselves ethnically. And I agree that a person’s origin isn’t all that important, the important thing is how that person identifies himself/herself as. Today, the majority of the Slavic speaking population in Macedonia identifies as ethnic Macedonians, however, some 50-60 years ago.. that same majority identified as ethnic Bulgarians. Putting the facts, books, and documents aside, we see that it isn’t difficult even for a proud Serb like Ljubotan to notice the genetic and cultural similarities between Bulgarians and Macedonians more so than those between Macedonians and Serbians or Bulgarians and Serbians.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Mar 17, 2010 2:00:34 GMT -5
The pontid racial type gets stronger and stronger as one approaches Greece. Put it this way, the pontid type, starts off at southern and south/eastern serbia, it gradually becomes more and more common through fyrom until we reach greece. Likewise, in Romania, it starts there and gets stronger and more common when we pass through Bulgarska to Greece. The Dinaric race which is of the majority in Serbia, is commonest in western fyrom, while the Pontid in eastern fyrom. Ljubo, it doesn't mean pontid equates to Bulgarin or Dinarid = serb, its just a regional thing like how geography can change in a nation from mountainous to desert etc... I actually agree with this. The percentage of darker people increases the further south you go, and lighter the further north. Croats are half-half, while Slovenians are completely central European, from what I saw. But you can't just group all Dinarics as Serbs, or all Bulgarians as something else. The Balkans especially is the most mixed part in Europe. There are Dinaric people all throughout the Balkans. There are less in Macedonia than in Serbia, true, but am I supposed to just think of Dinaric Macedonians or Dinaric Bulgarians as Serbs now?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 17, 2010 3:21:04 GMT -5
"But you can't just group all Dinarics as Serbs, or all Bulgarians as something else. The Balkans especially is the most mixed part in Europe. There are Dinaric people all throughout the Balkans. There are less in Macedonia than in Serbia, true, but am I supposed to just think of Dinaric Macedonians or Dinaric Bulgarians as Serbs now?"
Your absoultely right Nikola. I said this so the Bulgars would lay off, as you know, if the fyromian flag had green instead of red, the Bulgars here would be making a connection to their flag because they have a green strip. The point l've been telling these thick headed Bulgars is that languages evolve and specialise due to location, its the same with people too.
Look at Australia and its geography, just imagine you drive up to the great dividing range, its only 150 kilometres from Melbourne, beyond it, the rainfall decreases, the average temperature rises, less vegetation etc....The same happens in Fyrom with its language, people and culture.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 17, 2010 3:23:53 GMT -5
Nikola, you and Novi are saying exactly the same thing.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 17, 2010 3:26:45 GMT -5
Look at Australia and its geography, just imagine you drive up to the great dividing range, its only 150 kilometres from Melbourne, beyond it, the rainfall decreases, the average temperature rises, less vegetation etc....The same happens in Fyrom with its language, people and culture. nicely put Novi... PS How about a cease fire with Asen/Ruse? I gave Asen till the end of the day to behave like a good Slav man (ok Bulgarian).
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 17, 2010 3:29:45 GMT -5
^ its hard it say brother that they will act like respectable people from the Balkans, lets see ;D
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Post by rusebg on Mar 17, 2010 5:30:18 GMT -5
I read a few posts in some other threads that are hardly a precondition for peace but I will give it a try. So, Novi, what do you suggest we discuss except history?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 17, 2010 6:24:45 GMT -5
^^^^ Hmmmm some interesting things about you Ruse? Job, car ( i know Ford diesel), marital status, hobbies, etc...
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 17, 2010 6:30:07 GMT -5
^ its a good idea Pyrro, l think if he wants to suck things out of me, then he should go first.
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Post by macmako on Mar 17, 2010 6:31:03 GMT -5
hey guys, i attended a Bulgarian Orthodox church service this past Sunday with my Bulgarian friend, and I didn't understand one word! They are very disorganized and unserious compared to when i go to the Serbian church. The parish that attends the Serb church are very proper when entering a church, whereas in 'this' particular Bulgarian church it was not. The other thing I noticed is Bulgarians when making the sign of the cross do it 3 times simultaneously like the Macedonians do it; however, Serbs (majority people) do it once when making the sign of the cross (entering/exiting church, lighting candles, infront of icons). Also Serbs kiss their candles right before they light them, where Bulgarians and Macedonians do not. I know the literugy is in Church Slavonic; however, when the priest was speaking to the parish I was lost. Majority looked slavic but a couple looked Greek/Turkish looking. I will say that by appearance Bulgarians do resemble Macedonians more than Serbians. Serbians (besides being tall) have straight noses that are pointy, whereas Bulgarians and Macedonians have a bump on top of their nose and have a distinguished rounded finish at the end. Just little things I noticed as I observed (of course there are exceptions). Orthodoxy has it's local variants. I am Greek Orthodox, but I make the sign of the cross three times (Trinity). After I make the sign of the cross in Church, I touch the ground. I stand in Church for the entire service. Seems the Bulgarians, like the Russians, tend to maintain the Orthodox traditionalist customs. As far as appearances, I think Slavs all look the same.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 17, 2010 9:00:14 GMT -5
Having been in St Friday (if i am not mistaken...) in Sofia, the style is 100% Greek (or like the one we have in all over Greece) However the churches of Macedonia have darker (black-ish) roofs and are more like Serb churches than Greek or Bulgarian. This one looks 100% Serbian.
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Post by ljubotan on Mar 17, 2010 10:53:19 GMT -5
In my opinion, there is a pretty 'big' difference (genetically) between Serbs northwest, west and southwest of Krusevac than Serbs east, southeast of it.
Serbs/Serbians have excellent 'mannerisims' in church while Macedonians/Bulgarians seem disorganized in church or simiply speak during service to their neighbor.
The churches of Macedonia do resemble churches in Kosovo and southeastern Serbia, but that's because those areas were under longer Byzantine rule; hence, the byzantine style churches. Where when you go further west like Montenegro, Bosnia and western Serbia you see hardly to no churches with traditional domes.
It is evident that these areas came under 'full' Serb rule much later than 6-7th centuries; however, it does not mean they were not Serbs prior.
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Post by rusebg on Mar 17, 2010 13:03:14 GMT -5
This Ford Escort diesel crap was long time ago, it is Skoda now. Self-employed, divorced, football. Enough for a start?
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