Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 24, 2010 3:40:06 GMT -5
Ulf, the shokoj do look most different in all the balkans, they just got a look to them where you can tell the guy is a shiptar in Greece, its the same... i can tell who is albo and who is not easily, regardless of whether he is blondish (most are) or dark. Looks are not that important any way. Mentality however is, and i think the majority of Serbs (thank God) have something (very very) good in them.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 24, 2010 4:51:48 GMT -5
Pyrros you have created a whole southern Serb agenda probably I think just to amuse your self since your wife is Bosnian. 1) its is clear who has an agenda in here and who does not. 2) i speak from what my heart/eyes see and not from personal interest (so the wife comment of yours above is just emetic, and in any case if personal interest was my main motive i wouldn't be interested in ex-YU at all in the first place, neither would i be subscribed in those forums) 3) You, being the most bizzare serb ever i have seen in those forums, it doesn't puzzle me at all, when the bulgo gang consider you their best Serb man. 4) At some point besides polluting the forum with your BS, you will be asked to provide some evidence eventually. 5) it puzzles me, however, that you instead of defending the name of Bosnian Serbs when others accused them of being rude/raw/violent/etc... (which i consider bs), you ..... you chose to attack south Serbia instead.... again....
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Mar 24, 2010 7:04:25 GMT -5
God ! what BS ! Serbs or Bosnians lighter than Albanians ?? lol ! where did you read that, in a text from the sciences academy of Serbia ? ;D This is something I have noticed from some Albanians. Do you really consider Albanians to be lighter/fairer than Balkan Slavs? Serbia stretches all the way to Hungary so it makes sense to me that some Serbs would look very central European, while most Albanians are firmly southern European.
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Post by shejtani on Mar 24, 2010 7:25:20 GMT -5
God ! what BS ! Serbs or Bosnians lighter than Albanians ?? lol ! where did you read that, in a text from the sciences academy of Serbia ? ;D This is something I have noticed from some Albanians. Do you really consider Albanians to be lighter/fairer than Balkan Slavs? Serbia stretches all the way to Hungary so it makes sense to me that some Serbs would look very central European, while most Albanians are firmly southern European. just tell me where did I write that ...
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Mar 24, 2010 7:49:29 GMT -5
Well ok, fairer than Serbs then? Or everyone else around them?
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Post by ulf on Mar 24, 2010 8:31:49 GMT -5
Serbia has lot of different faces. Some are like those pic's you presented, some are darker, some are lighter. My family, for instance, have in 80% of cases lighter features then these people on pictures. But then again for someone else is different thing round. Likewise for Bosnian Muslims. Croats, Bosnians and Serbs are closest by appearance, no doubt here. PS to Albanian fellow here... All Albanians I saw, and I saw them many, weren't closely looking to either Serbs or Bosnians or Croats or any of South Slavic nations. There is some minority of Slavs you assimilated and possibly some Celts, that's why some Albanians appear lighter What does mean here lighter, do you have idea?....lighter can be every phenotype like nordic (have significantly more light features), meds, dinaric, atlantid ect...Albanians are mostly Dinaric...so south slavs more assimilated albanians (that is very visible) than albanians did on slavs or any invaders, and south slavs looks diffirent from North Slavs. No no, I didn't mean lighter as, in example, Albanians have darker skin then Serbs. Mostly Serbs have a bit lighter hair or eye pigmentation. For the rest of text considering assimilation, I agree as well, but you can't claim they were Albanians, since Albanians appeared under such name in late 11th century
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 24, 2010 10:13:19 GMT -5
Plus don't forget the fact that the Albanian language has loans from Latin (an anitque language) and ancient North-Western Greek. what do you guys smoke anyway? If by "ancient north-western greek" you mean the idiom of Ipiros, then it was close to the one spoken in south Italy, Sparta and every other Dorian land. The differences between Dorian greek and Ionian greek (Attica dialect spoken in most famous texts from Athens) were like Ekavica and Jekavica. So, i bet someone is inventing stories again....
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Post by ulf on Mar 24, 2010 12:28:44 GMT -5
No no, I didn't mean lighter as, in example, Albanians have darker skin then Serbs. Mostly Serbs have a bit lighter hair or eye pigmentation. For the rest of text considering assimilation, I agree as well, but you can't claim they were Albanians, since Albanians appeared under such name in late 11th century well, I'm not going to back what prijesdardanian said, but the fact that Albanians appeared in the texts for the first time in the 11th century doesn't mean anything ... Vlachs appeared for the first time in a text from the 10th century ... yet are you going to argue that they came in Balkans after Slavs ? I hope you won't ... Plus don't forget the fact that the Albanian language has loans from Latin (an anitque language) and ancient North-Western Greek. Let's not forget that the toponymy in a the rectangle Durrës - Ulqin/Ulcinj - Stip - Nis still preserves antique toponyms (wich is not normal when we know that Slavs modified all toponyms in the places they invaded) the evolution of can't be explained by the phonetic laws of any Balkans Slavic language. I'm not here to arguing who is older then who, nor I'm saying that Albanians 1st time stepped on Balkan soil in late 11th century, but it doesn't change the fact that minor Caucasian or Anatolian tribe called Albanians united majority of locals(whether it be Illyrians, Greeks or Thracians) under name Albania, similar to that what happened in Bulgaria. Are the Illyrians, Thracians, Greeks, Gepids or Celts older then Slavs on Balkan? I think that everyone here knows the answer to this question, but it was not my intention to discuss about that issue
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Mar 24, 2010 12:35:29 GMT -5
"However, Çabej has recently argued (VII Congresso intemazianale di scienze onomastiche 250-251) that these Greek loans do not necessarily remove the pre-Albanians far from Greek territory; that is, that they fit well with a location in present-day Albania, in contact either with Doric Greek colonists or with the Northwest Dorians. His points on the Doric character of the loans certainly look persuasive: drapën, Tosk drapër 'sickle' < *drapanon rather than drepanon; kumbull 'plum' < kokkumhlon, brukë 'Tamariske' < murikh, trumzë 'thyme' < qumbra ~ qrumbh. The last three (and, for that matter, reflexes of the first) occur in parallel forms in the Greek enclaves of southern Italy (though the Doric nature of these dialects is another famous debate!). But this still does not tell us precisely where the Dorians in question were at the time of contact. " I put, intellectual honesty, all the paragraph taken from E Hamp, The position of Albanians. Brother, dont bother arguing with these people, they're the students of highdyke and his pseudo-historical theories. Otherwise you're completely right about the nature of ancient Greek loan words in our language. But qualified academic research & evidence won't bite on these folks ... with them, who was the louder mouth wins ;D
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 24, 2010 14:12:26 GMT -5
"However, Çabej has recently argued (VII Congresso intemazianale di scienze onomastiche 250-251) that these Greek loans do not necessarily remove the pre-Albanians far from Greek territory; that is, that they fit well with a location in present-day Albania, in contact either with Doric Greek colonists or with the Northwest Dorians. His points on the Doric character of the loans certainly look persuasive: drapën, Tosk drapër 'sickle' < *drapanon rather than drepanon; kumbull 'plum' < kokkumhlon, brukë 'Tamariske' < murikh, trumzë 'thyme' < qumbra ~ qrumbh. The last three (and, for that matter, reflexes of the first) occur in parallel forms in the Greek enclaves of southern Italy (though the Doric nature of these dialects is another famous debate!). But this still does not tell us precisely where the Dorians in question were at the time of contact. " I put, intellectual honesty, all the paragraph taken from E Hamp, The position of Albanians. Brother, dont bother arguing with these people, they're the students of highdyke and his pseudo-historical theories. Otherwise you're completely right about the nature of ancient Greek loan words in our language. But qualified academic research & evidence won't bite on these folks ... with them, who was the louder mouth wins ;D facts: - the only semi-decent example shejtani posted was "Drepanon" vs "Drapanon" (of course it is still a poor example as Drapen contains an extra "e" (vs Drapan) which weakens the argument. Because Drapen could come from Drepan-on with swapping the vowels. (i have seen worse theories here by the pokemon so please plan well whatever you wanna say) - i fail to see any Greek influence on the rest of words: (kumbull 'plum' < kokkumhlon, brukë 'Tamariske' < murikh, trumzë 'thyme' < qumbra ~ qrumbh) sound like alien ants singing the blues (at least to my ears) nothing even close to sound like smth greek.... - as i said Dorian and Ionian were the same language - Only a complete imbecile like the pokemon would think that a Greek would take lessons in Greek language by a Serb.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 24, 2010 15:05:36 GMT -5
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 24, 2010 20:50:30 GMT -5
"However, Çabej has recently argued (VII Congresso intemazianale di scienze onomastiche 250-251) that these Greek loans do not necessarily remove the pre-Albanians far from Greek territory; that is, that they fit well with a location in present-day Albania, in contact either with Doric Greek colonists or with the Northwest Dorians. His points on the Doric character of the loans certainly look persuasive: drapën, Tosk drapër 'sickle' < *drapanon rather than drepanon; kumbull 'plum' < kokkumhlon, brukë 'Tamariske' < murikh, trumzë 'thyme' < qumbra ~ qrumbh. The last three (and, for that matter, reflexes of the first) occur in parallel forms in the Greek enclaves of southern Italy (though the Doric nature of these dialects is another famous debate!). But this still does not tell us precisely where the Dorians in question were at the time of contact. " I put, intellectual honesty, all the paragraph taken from E Hamp, The position of Albanians. "
Don't get angry, just asking. Could this be the result of the assimilation of the north epirus greeks by Albanians after the 11th century?.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 24, 2010 21:20:38 GMT -5
lol... It could also be time traveling Albanians. It could also be space aliens from Mars.
Its a result of the fact that Albanians are a native Balkan people. Albanian shares much more w/ Latin, Greek and even Romanian than a few simple words. Even grammatical constructions... I can speak Albanian and read in Greek and Latin. I see for myself where they are. You, on the otherhand, cant even speak the language to claim expertise in (Bulgaro-Vardar)
And most Greeks from southern Albania were not assimilated. Historical chronicles mention that Albanians pushed populations from the south out as they migrated into the region. Other Greeks fled Albanian clan controlled areas and went into Byzantine controlled Janina.After the defeat at the Axelous River there was a flood of Greeks packing into Janina from what is today southern Albania. These people returned in smaller numbers after Albanian tribes were pushed back by Ottoman general, namely Shahin bey, who was Albanian from devshirme.
Also, working off of your basis is completely unscientific. Tell me, what about the fact that Kosova Albanians share these isoglosses?
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 24, 2010 22:18:15 GMT -5
God ! what BS ! Serbs or Bosnians lighter than Albanians ?? lol ! where did you read that, in a text from the sciences academy of Serbia ? ;D This is something I have noticed from some Albanians. Do you really consider Albanians to be lighter/fairer than Balkan Slavs? Serbia stretches all the way to Hungary so it makes sense to me that some Serbs would look very central European, while most Albanians are firmly southern European. Dont forget that hungarians themself has significantly turanid/uralic influence (their origin huns), there have alot darkskined hungarians also blonde hungarians with turanid/uralic appearance (like north fins)...hungarians are only 50% nordic.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 24, 2010 22:28:54 GMT -5
What does mean here lighter, do you have idea?....lighter can be every phenotype like nordic (have significantly more light features), meds, dinaric, atlantid ect...Albanians are mostly Dinaric...so south slavs more assimilated albanians (that is very visible) than albanians did on slavs or any invaders, and south slavs looks diffirent from North Slavs. No no, I didn't mean lighter as, in example, Albanians have darker skin then Serbs. Mostly Serbs have a bit lighter hair or eye pigmentation. For the rest of text considering assimilation, I agree as well, but you can't claim they were Albanians, since Albanians appeared under such name in late 11th century Serbs dont have light skinn than Albanians, i am the one who visited also South Serbia (Vranje,Nis,Kregujevac ect) and generall Albanians of Presheva Valley (south serbia) had more blondish features than those serbs. Same was on Kosova between Albanians and Serbs. But i am not saying that Albanians are more lighter than serbs, blond features are present to both nations but both has diffirent phenotypes about blondish issue. Blondis features generall on serbs present are Baltid-Nordid "slavic" (like ratko mladic ect) while to Albanians are Noric (or Dinarico-Nordid). Bosnaks and Bosnako-Serbs (unlike Montengrins) are more lighter and blonde compare to Albanians and Serbs.
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Post by insomniac on Mar 25, 2010 1:18:23 GMT -5
Let's just say a lot of Serbs look like Gypsies compared to Albanians. Just compare the politicians.
Serb ones have big eye shadows underneath. Like they are drug addicts. Compare Tadic, Jeremic, Jovanovic, Oliver Ivanovic, Nikolic and Kostunica. Versus Azem Vllasi, Haradinaj, Ceku... LOL
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 25, 2010 2:14:04 GMT -5
Don't get angry, just asking. Could this be the result of the assimilation of the north epirus greeks by Albanians after the 11th century?. Novi, one thing i know for sure, is that Arvanites from southern Greece (there are no arvanites in northern greece, except maybe Thesprotia, an of course no native albs at all in northern greece), well those Arvanites look like ordinary greeks. Nothing blond among them like the albanians from albania proper. That makes me think, that arvanites are 100% of Greek/Vlah stock, and that vlahs are 100% of Greek stock. They are ex-roman soldiers who spoke latin for at least 700 years. On 146BC Romans conquered Greece. Untill 700 AD (when the Serbs had alread made their appearance) the official language of the Greeks was the Latin language. After 700AD and upto about 1400AD, most of central/northern Greece was under Slavic rule. That means Hellenism was not cultured at all in my lands for at least 1500 YEARS!!! Thats why the old ladies of my village had a vocabulary of about 200-300 words (greek words), and when i moved to Crete to study (when i was 17.5), IMMEDIATELY i knew something was going on.... THis place looked .... VERY GREEK into my eyes...
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Post by ulf on Mar 25, 2010 10:22:29 GMT -5
No no, I didn't mean lighter as, in example, Albanians have darker skin then Serbs. Mostly Serbs have a bit lighter hair or eye pigmentation. For the rest of text considering assimilation, I agree as well, but you can't claim they were Albanians, since Albanians appeared under such name in late 11th century Serbs dont have light skinn than Albanians, i am the one who visited also South Serbia (Vranje,Nis,Kregujevac ect) and generall Albanians of Presheva Valley (south serbia) had more blondish features than those serbs. Same was on Kosova between Albanians and Serbs. But i am not saying that Albanians are more lighter than serbs, blond features are present to both nations but both has diffirent phenotypes about blondish issue. Blondis features generall on serbs present are Baltid-Nordid "slavic" (like ratko mladic ect) while to Albanians are Noric (or Dinarico-Nordid). Bosnaks and Bosnako-Serbs (unlike Montengrins) are more lighter and blonde compare to Albanians and Serbs. Ok, those South Serbs and Albanians have similar pigmentation(I don't know actually, since I have been only in Nis twice and didn't paid much attention to it), but the northern away from Nis you go, the more Serbs with light hair/eyes you have. At the end when you sum up all those Balkan Albanians(Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece) and all those Balkan Serbs(Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Croatia and Macedonia) you get full picture I was talking about.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 25, 2010 10:25:51 GMT -5
"At the end when you sum up all those Balkan Albanians(Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece) "
My friend in Greece, albanians have albanian passport, are not native, and therefore they do not exist in your above logic.
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Post by ulf on Mar 25, 2010 10:37:59 GMT -5
"At the end when you sum up all those Balkan Albanians(Albania, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro and Greece) " My friend in Greece, albanians have albanian passport, are not native, and therefore they do not exist in your above logic. It isn't my concern if they have passport or not. I am talking about the people who work or live there plus they are of Albanian origin
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