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Post by manijak on Mar 24, 2010 14:03:20 GMT -5
First, my opinion is based on listening to gay military people.(like the clips above) And while I'm not in the military, police and military were and still are an option for me.
You have to understand that many of them didn't even mind not being out but they were outed. People went through their personal emails and so forth. But please answer this q, MIG: If a bud in the military asks you what kind of girls you like , what you are into, basically personal life..why do you deserve the right to answer honestly and I have to lie??
In regards to he lieutenant.. It makes not difference what he "seems". Most people would guess that quiet a few of my straight buds are gay before they would guess that I was. there is no such thing as a real homosexual and one that just prefers sex with guys..there is all kinds of gays, jocks, nerds, artistic, etc
You didn't choose to find women attractive and we didn't choose to find men attractive. That is how we are born.
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Post by MiG on Mar 24, 2010 14:17:31 GMT -5
Fair enough. I'm not going to go on a rant of how you don't know the whole picture all on a personal level, I'll take your word on hearing many and endless real-life incidents.
That's between you and your squad. The military, as a whole unit and structural department, does not bare the responsibility of what you say and do. It's your choice to come clean with your team/squad/platoon, and its up to them personally what they see you as.
What I'm trying to get at, is that not many educated people are in the army. 40% of my Reserves Platoon didn't even graduate from high school. 2 guys didn't make it through Grade 10. You have no idea the ignorance displayed, not only towards homosexuals, but people that were just a little different in any sense (Race, Religion, etc).
My stance on this is that you should leave your Sexual Preference at home, and should be ready to do that. While the military does look for personal qualities that may stand you out from the rest, they also uniform people to their liking and order.
What do you think, that when the Officers in charge say phrases like "You fucking homo! Give me the last 10 pushups!".. You think that you'll have the right to stand up and fight for your rights? You think the next black guy who gets called a "nigger" has the right to do the same. I got called a WOP, a Commie, and a bunch of other shit. But meanwhile it may not be correct that I may be that, I had no right to talk back. If I did, punishment was in order.
That's what makes everyone a unique case. So you're going to have laws that stipulate every single persons rights and order? One, uniform law, that takes the median in any scenario is enough.
But does that mean that you should be treated any more politically correct then me?
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Post by manijak on Mar 24, 2010 14:30:26 GMT -5
You are looking at this all wrong. Nobody comes to the army or military expecting special treatment..we are just talking about equal treatment. Right now if it comes out you are gay..(doesn't matter how), it could be them snooping on your personal stuff(which has happened),or one of your squad rats you out(because you told one person)..you are getting fired. That is where the rights are coming in. You shouldn't be fired for that coming out, often through no fault of your own. If it is to be equal, then if you ever mention your sexuality,(a girl) YOU should be fired.
People are not all of the sudden going to start coming out in droves because people don't join the military so they can come out and show their sexuality to others.
I coach soccer,(and before that played on clubs) and believe me, I know the environment. My club doesn't know I'm gay and they don't need to know. But that's mostly because I don't think its a good idea for players and coaches to be friends.
I scream and yell and say all kinds of stuff to my players..I don't expect them to sue me or be bothered.if they don't like it, they can find another team. That is the military. You won't see anybody complaining that they were called a f*g during training exercises lmao
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Post by MiG on Mar 24, 2010 14:42:37 GMT -5
I never argued this. Yes, its wrong. Like I said before, just because you may be straight or homosexual, doesn't make a difference of how professional you are, and how good you can be at your job. Have I not said that, countless times in this thread alone?
Never said they would.
I understand. You keep your personal life out of it, because its just that; personal.
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Post by manijak on Mar 24, 2010 14:45:11 GMT -5
Dude, this being the MAIN key:(I edited a part and added)
"You shouldn't be fired for that coming out, often through no fault of your own. If it is to be equal, then if you ever mention your sexuality,(a girl) YOU should be fired."
So fine, lets not change anything...no repealing...lets just ADD, to make it fair. So the rule is, if YOU mention your personal life, your sexuality, suggest you are straight..then you should get fired too? Fair?
You see how stupid that would be? Everyone would be fired.
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Post by MiG on Mar 24, 2010 15:00:19 GMT -5
First off, I said Sexual Preference, not sexuality. Since we're being politically correct here, you should differentiate between the two. That makes your first comparison null and void, since it makes no sense to the current subject we are debating, correct?
Now, lets take on the position of what you have just said. On the statement of "Just adding and not re-appealing", it makes no sense in our society today. Sure discrimination is everywhere, but in a world where the very large majority is straight, it's obvious which side will have written the laws.
My comparison of Religious Freedom vs. your Sexual Preference Freedom is a good one. Why? Because if the former is treated as "leave at your doorstep", then the latter should as well. I never hear a person "coming out of the closet and admitting they're straight". It's a norm in society, and has been for tens of thousands of years that people are generally straight. Had that been different, instead of 6.8 Billion on this planet, we'd barely get to 6.8 Million.
Of course your comparison is stupid, because it's a non-issue compared with an issue.
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Post by manijak on Mar 24, 2010 15:09:44 GMT -5
MIG
Sexual preference and sexuality are the same thing in this discussion because a gay person can not comment on some guy they are seeing without being fired. Understand?
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Post by manijak on Mar 24, 2010 15:17:23 GMT -5
You see what I don't get is you AGREED with me that gay people in the military are not itching to get this repealed so they can start coming out.(because its not about that..the coming out) So not one gay person is doing this so they can state their sexual preference. They are doing it, incase it comes up in CASUAL conversation.. if they do tell one of their closer friends, they wont get FIRED. I think that's reasonable. We are talking about careers and lives here.
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Post by MiG on Mar 24, 2010 15:19:57 GMT -5
MIG Sexual preference and sexuality are the same thing in this discussion because a gay person can not comment on some guy they are seeing without being fired. Understand? Well, for the point of fact and political correctness, they're not. But if you want it to be so, that's fair enough. You see what I don't get is you AGREED with me that gay people in the military are not itching to get this repealed so they can start coming out.(because its not about that..the coming out) So not one gay person is doing this so they can state their sexual preference. They are doing it, incase it comes up in CASUAL conversation.. if they do tell one of their closer friends, they wont get FIRED. I think that's reasonable. We are talking about careers and lives here. That IS reasonable. I was arguing for the sake of professionalism, that it shouldn't matter whether you're gay or not. Is it me, or are we arguing about two different topics stemming from the same problem?
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Post by manijak on Mar 24, 2010 15:25:40 GMT -5
I'm not sure what we are arguing about at this point. It just seemed to me you saw this situation in a biased and homophobic way but maybe there was some misunderstanding.
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Post by MiG on Mar 24, 2010 15:29:17 GMT -5
^ Nah dude. I'm not homophobic, even though I might have come off like I was. What you do is your business, and at the end of the day, what you do in your private life, doesn't affect me one bit.
Either way, what your personal choice is, shouldn't affect professionalism in any branch of any job (Be it government or not).
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Post by manijak on Mar 24, 2010 15:29:44 GMT -5
And really dude, wouldn't you like to know who's gay so you can avoid them in the showers? heheh
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Post by MiG on Mar 24, 2010 15:31:16 GMT -5
^ LOL! Only in prison.
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Post by manijak on Mar 24, 2010 15:33:24 GMT -5
Straight guys will do you in prison too..cause f'in another guy for them(criminals) is about power..they don't connect sex to it. So they will do you there..watch out lmao
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Post by SKORIC on Mar 24, 2010 17:44:31 GMT -5
What's the difference between sexuality and sexual preference..?
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Post by hellboy87 on Mar 24, 2010 18:18:19 GMT -5
Sexuality,its sex stuff
Sexual preference.....is sex acts.
It's not about sexual preference regarding this whole thing.It's about IDENTITY and HONESTY.
MiG,thinks its sexual sexual.Like this:HEEEEYYYY!!! I'm cock sucker! I'm p*ssy licker! I'm a fingerer! I pound asses! I bang p*ssies! I sfhs skdshs faihfi akahfd titties!
It's more about a personality and character and taste thing,when you say you're gay.
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Post by Zvone on Mar 24, 2010 18:43:48 GMT -5
Sexual preference is used to describe a pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions to men, women, both genders, neither gender, or another gender (heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, and asexual).
Sexuality is how people experience the erotic and express themselves as sexual beings (biological, physical, emotional, etc.).
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Post by SKORIC on Mar 24, 2010 20:57:35 GMT -5
So you can have a sexual preference for men without being homosexual?
LOL at hellboy
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Post by Zvone on Mar 24, 2010 21:09:02 GMT -5
Did you mean a sexual preference toward men? Then no, if you are attracted to the same sex you are a homosexual.
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Post by Username on Mar 24, 2010 21:45:01 GMT -5
hellboy, my virgin ears can't handle those kinda words.
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