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Post by leshte on Apr 15, 2010 15:52:37 GMT -5
Twisting things again basil. I'll be the first one to say that these Greeks should rot in jail when they're found guilty and I'll also be the first one to say that any policeman who attempts to beat these low lives while in custody also deserves jail time. Not only that but in the incident with the teenages your idiot policeman were ordering those two kids to beat each other. This is not because of some feelings of being sorry for the perpetrators. This is because there needs to be a line; and when police decide to punish people where there's no court order then where do we draw the line. How do we then distinguish between police brutality and normal procedures. Where then does police brutality become normal procedure. Who and on what basis then decides who can be beaten and tortured and who can't. The rules are there for a reason. That why there are judges and courts who decide about the punishment, that's why there are those who execute the courts' orders. So police custody according to rules only entails police custody; not beating up, no torturing. The police do not have the authority of the judge and a court to hand out punishment and they do not have the authority to proclaim themselves as self-made vigilantes. That is how we avoid innocent people from being punished from police brutality. Courts establish guilt and innocence not a bunch of d!ckhead cops, drunk on self- proclaimed power. The lack of outcry from Greeks, only shows that they are not bothered by such behavior from those who are supposed to defend them. What if your kids were mistakenly identified and ended up in the hands of those d!ckheads? Would you want them to have the power to beat up anybody they had in custody? Not only your army are bunch of idiots. The police force seems also to be a bunch of idiots. Our societies are indeed different. We don't have d!ckheads in our institutions masturbating on a possible genocide against Greeks. You do. Not only that but you support them. We are against police brutality, even towards those that are awaiting their court day. You support it and encourage it. Not only that but you are so faceless you attempt to turn a crime committed by your own compatriots into an accusation towards a whole nation.
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ajax
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Posts: 145
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Post by ajax on Apr 15, 2010 18:03:30 GMT -5
You have at least one in your forum. I believe his name is toskaliksu.
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Post by leshte on Apr 15, 2010 18:40:17 GMT -5
Internet forums are not government and state institutions.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 17, 2010 4:13:54 GMT -5
leshte I know that police has no right to punish people and believe me.. I would hate to see my kid in the same position by accident. What I'm interested in is the feelings Albanians have for Albanian criminals who commit crimes to Greeks. I have read many times from many members about "poor Albanians" in Greek jails etc etc etc when we all know very well that "jail visitors" are not the innocent Albanian economic immigrants who work hard for their families. It seems like nobody wants these Albanians to be in jails like it plays no role if their crimes against innocent population. It seems that you (Albanians) would be happy to have these people free... and as your neighborhs near your families.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 17, 2010 4:17:47 GMT -5
Internet forums are not government and state institutions. You know very well that having a percentage of 90% of these kind of members in a forum.. somehow represents the Albanian nation.. or at least the Albanian diaspora. The only time I have seen members of these forum to disagree with extreme positions of Toskali is about his religious views.. not about his dreams to genocide all Greeks.. ;D Even Karta from the Greek forum is not so extreme.. and despite that I doubt he has 1-2 who share his extreme opinions. If Karta was Albanian.. he would be your "soft" president of the forum ;D ;D
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Post by leshte on Apr 17, 2010 10:42:52 GMT -5
That's in your head buddy.
As for Toskali everytime I disagree with him over his language a 100% of the Greeks, you included have no remorse whatsoever over the ethnic cleansing of our people conducted by Greece and the killing of many many civilians under some very lame justifications. When you and your people do not condemn the tragedy that was perpetrated by Greece onto our people but you support it whole-heartedly, then I or any of my people don't think would be smart in condemning Melty's imagination. You have 100% of the Greek members of these forums that express great gratitude that their state ethnically cleansed our people and you come here expressing dissatisfaction that we do not condemn the imagination of one person. The difference is like night and day. The tragedy of our people committed by Greeks really occurred and you support it, meanwhile what you don't like is simply a figment of imagination in Melty's head. There is nobody foolish enough here on the Albanian boards to equalize one person's imagination with the ethnic cleansing greeks perpetrated on Albanians and the gratitude the Greeks feel about it. To put it shortly if Melty was Greek he'd be your soft forum president because while you and your compatriots support an ethnic cleansing that has really occured; Melty's calls are for something that resides in his head. You with your support for ethnic cleansing of our people are much more extreme than any Albanian in this board.
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Post by Kassandros on Apr 18, 2010 5:51:50 GMT -5
"you and your compatriots support an ethnic cleansing that has really occured;"
..here we go again.. I will start screaming like Ross in TV.. "WE WERE ON A BREAK'!!!
I think we have a small different interception on how the events are presented.. Lets not continue with it again..
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Post by leshte on Apr 18, 2010 18:04:19 GMT -5
Sure, the difference in opinion is exactly the same as the one Turks have with you.
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ajax
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Post by ajax on Apr 19, 2010 8:09:57 GMT -5
You are so clever! Now you're going to tell us about the 'love' you have for Greeks and Serbs.
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Post by leshte on Apr 19, 2010 12:39:24 GMT -5
You know loving millions of people is an abstraction just like hating millions of people is abstraction. As an Albanian I don't love all Albanians around the world. I only love my family. With the rest that I don't know I have a neutral feeling until I know them and then this neutrality could turn into positive or negative. I have worked with Greeks and Serbs. I didn't hate those people I knew because as far as I knew they hadn't caused any harm to me or any other Albanian, based on ethnicity. I don't hate you or any of the most racist pigs in this forum because as far as I know you or them have not acted on things that you or them might have said in this forum. There are so many things that are more important in life than loving or hating millions of people for no reason. Respect is applied on an individual level. It is earned individually, not collectively.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 19, 2010 14:58:14 GMT -5
Its obvious from the beginning that I am geared towards liking Albanians more than any other. I have bent over backwards to help Albanians on various occasions, just because I know that they are Albanian. I am more keen on becoming friends with someone if I find out that he/she is Albanian, when someone tells me thatb they are Albanian I, alongside most other Albs, immediately become excited and start questions. Its natural. I would not help others the way I help an Albanian person, same with most other Albs. I know Albanian bouncers in the city who let me and my friends through just because they found out I was Albanian. I value the life of an Albanian far more than anyone else's.
Conversely I would be far less willing to help out someone who is a Greek or Serb...
Obviously in the end we will judge each other individually. However, unlike with others, when I find out someone is Albanian, they have already received a plus in my mind. What happens from there is a matter of personality. However, from the beginning I am more keen to be friends with them.
I hold Turks and Bosnians on a similar but far lower level. The points they win in my mind are not as high.
And truth be told, that is the case with 90% of other Albanians. I actually have a big problem with Albanian-Americans who are so assimilated as to not feel the same way. I think that they are the most despicable of all.
Im sure that Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Turks, etc. etc. feel much the same.
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Post by leshte on Apr 19, 2010 15:18:44 GMT -5
Yes but positive or negative inclinations towards a people do not equal love or hate towards them. In the end it all comes down to the comfort of being around your own. That doesn't mean automatic love or hate for millions of people who are or aren't part of your group. Positive or negative inclinations towards a certain group again do not equal love or hate towards it.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 19, 2010 15:31:45 GMT -5
They are indications of where you are headed however.
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Post by leshte on Apr 19, 2010 15:37:55 GMT -5
Hmm. Depends on what you expose yourself to and how exposed you are.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness.” Mark Twain.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 19, 2010 15:39:54 GMT -5
I disagree with Mark Twain a bit, I have traveled a lot. I have been to Montenegro, I have been to Greece... I felt more distant for the people after the trip than before. Travel made me more aware of my ethnicity and people. Coming to re-acquaint myself with Albania meant alienation from my of my prior relations as my ideas radicalized.
Mark Twain is speaking from the view of an American, as a way to open your mind to different ways of life and cultures, not to national identity.
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