donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 7, 2010 19:08:45 GMT -5
Dy grekë masakrojnë një familje shqiptare 06/04/2010 16:08:26 Ngjarje shokuese ka ndodhur në Greqi duke tronditur opinionin vendas dhe shkaktuar zemëratë mes emigrantëve shqiptarë pasi një grua shtatzënë u masakrua nga dy grekë bashkë me të shoqin e djalin tyre duke i vrarë dhe beben në bark, raporton korrespondenti i agjencisë NOA. Dy grekët atë e bir kanë masakruar çiftin shqiptar dhe djalin e tyre se kishin ngritur më shumë se ç’duhet volumin e muzikës në makinë dhe kanë vrarë fëmijën e gruas shtatzënë që priste ta sillte në jetë për pak javë. Ngjarja ka ndodhur në Janinë të hënën e Pashkës, një prej tre ditëve të pushimit zyrtar për Pashkët në Greqi. Çifti shqiptar, një grua 25-vjeçare që priste fëmijën e dytë, një vajzë dhe bashkëshorti i saj 32 vjeçar, bashkë me djalin 4 vjeçar gjendeshin në makinën e tyre duke qëndruar në pritje të miqve të tyre dhe për të vijuar udhëtimin. Në këto momente ata po dëgjonin muzikë në kasetofonin e makinës. Një banori vendas që ndodhej në banesën e tij përballë, i është dukur e lartë muzika dhe ka dalë jashtë duke bërtitur dhe duke i kërkuar çiftit që të ulë volumin. Menjëherë në “ndihmë” të 45-vjeçarit ka dalë edhe i biri i cili i është sulur shqiptarëve duke iu hakërryer të ulnin volumin e muzikës, pa kursyer atë e bir të sharat pafund. Situata është acaruar nga fjalët “hidh e prit” mes palëve por dy grekët kanë shkuar më tej duke goditur në kokë dhe trup çiftin dhe djalin e tyre që ishin futur si në kurth pasi gjendeshin brenda në makinë. Në mënyrë barbare ata nuk kanë kursyer as gruan e re që priste të sillte në jetë një fëmijë. Për më tepër, njëri prej të dyve ka vrapuar në banesë dhe ka dalë që andej me një karabinë dhe me qytën e saj ka qëlluar në kokë duke ia çarë të riut shqiptar dhe menjëherë më pas ka qëlluar në bark edhe të shoqen duke i vrarë fëmijën që duhet të dilte në këtë botë pas disa javësh. Policia ka mbërritur pas disa minutash në vendngjarje e lajmëruar nga dëshmitarë okularë të cilët i thanë agjentëve se ishin shokuar por edhe frikësuar shumë nga skena që përjetuan për disa minuta. Burri i plagosur është dërguar në Spitalin Universitar të Janinës me dëmtime të rënda në kokë dhe mjekët u shprehën se gjendja e tij është kritike. Në të njëjtin spital u dërgua dhe i biri i cili gjithashtu paraqet plagë serioze në trup dhe kokë. Ndërkohë gruaja e cila gjithashtu u dërgua në këtë spital tek reparti Obstetrik-Gjinekologjik, ka kaluar në gjendje shoku, thanë burimet spitalore për agjencinë NOA. Ajo ka humbur fëmijën e saj që ka vdekur për shkak të goditjeve me grushte dhe me qytën e pushkës tip karabinë, konfirmuan mjekët dhe policia e Janinës për agjencinë e lajmeve NOA. Policia konfirmoi se ka arrestuar 45-vjeçarin dhe djalin e tij 22 vjeçar dhe ka ngritur ndaj tyre pesë akuza, për vrasje të mbetur në tentativë, tre herë, e kryer në bashkëpunim, vrasje për shkak të cilësive të veçanta dhe përdorim të paligjshëm të armëve luftarake. (INA-NOA) www.ina-online.net/Default.aspx?news=b3482990-00ec-4124-85f5-cbdc973e67c7&ln=3
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 7, 2010 19:15:29 GMT -5
Cannot find anything in English, but here's a link in Greek; www.madata.gr/epikairotita/social/57997.htmlBasically two Greeks, father and son, attacked a family of four because they were listening to music at a high volume; the husband, thirty-two yrs old, the wife of twenty-five, their four year old son and her unborn baby. The husband, wife and their four year old were all hospitalized, their unborn baby killed as a result of repeated blows against her stomach ...
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Post by insomniac on Apr 7, 2010 19:25:46 GMT -5
No way? The peaceloving greeks?
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Apr 7, 2010 19:37:01 GMT -5
their unborn baby killed as a result of repeated blows against her stomach jail time for the rest of their life for both 45 years old greek killer and for 22 years old his son
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Kanaris
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This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
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Post by Kanaris on Apr 7, 2010 20:38:10 GMT -5
That is sad... hope they get what's coming to them.
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rex362
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Pellazg
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Post by rex362 on Apr 7, 2010 20:49:00 GMT -5
wtf
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Post by insomniac on Apr 7, 2010 20:50:37 GMT -5
wb rex
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 8, 2010 4:20:14 GMT -5
The fourth "person" was an unborn embryo, no person. Secondly, the other side states that the albanians started first...no need to judge anyone already now since the embryo was most probably not killed intentionally but as result of the quarrel with the woman itself who interfered in order to protect her husband...I cant read anything about repeated blows against her stomach....thats why the judge will decide what has really happened...not we....sad incident.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 8, 2010 8:33:56 GMT -5
It says in the article that the woman was due to give birth in a couple of weeks. She was in the final phase of her pregnancy ... which means that the unborn baby was not an "embryo", because this denotes the earliest phase of pregnancy (the first two months), then the fetal phase begins. So if you're going to act a wise-guy and be all formal in order to downplay the severity of this murder, atleast learn your terminology.
This is not a debate over pro/anti-abortion as you make it sound. This was a PERSON, intended to be born by its parents as an addition to the family. It was not a voluntary "abortion".
And yet you're the one making all the judging beforehand in an attemption to justify this coward action. There's no justification, even if their intention was not to kill ,,, point is, they attacked a family and delivered blows indiscriminately, including a four year old defenseless boy and a pregnant woman.
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 8, 2010 9:51:41 GMT -5
Oh please, your post is full of mistakes, you are ridiculing yourself. First of all according to the Greek source she was in the 5th month. Secondly I did nowhere mention abortion nor did I make such an allusion. Thirdly you become a person with the completion of birth and no second before, so it doesnt even matter if she was in the 5th or 9th month. Thats the legal situation and thats what counts. Fifthly it was most probably no murder because its impossible to murder someone negligently.
Your emotions are galopping away with you...you are wrong in all your points, it would be a waste of time to even defend myself on that. Come again when you are calm.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 8, 2010 10:25:24 GMT -5
Spare me your BS and stick to the arguments. Regardless of whether we go by the Greek source or the Albanian, the initial phase of 8 months of the pregnancy were over, and so the unborn baby was no longer an embryo, but a fetus ... not that it would help your attempt to moralize assaults on pregnant women even if you were correct.
Also, the baby "becoming a person" the second it is born is your highly subjective opinion and nothing more. If you wish to play that game, one can say that it is a continuous process, and our personality isn't really complete until we reach the age of 4-6 years, thereafter accumulating normative values of what is right and wrong throughout life. But that is all irrelevant. This was a living being, expected by its parents, and those two Greeks killed it. Your subjective philosophical assessment of what constitutes a person is unimportant in this tragedy, so you're free to shuv it up your arse frankly.
That is up for the judge to decide, wasnt it?
PS Let's settle with your biased view for a moment that the unborn baby killed was not a person, as you put it, and that the intention was not murder, the death being an unwanted side-effect of them brutalizing a pregnant woman. How would you classify this crime? Homicide? How so if it is yet to be a person?
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 8, 2010 11:21:37 GMT -5
You dont understand...regarding the question if the unborn child is a person or not I refered to the legal situation...I wasnt about to have a philosophic discussion about it with you. Open your eyes...I thought albanians have eyes of an eagle...as it seems this doesnt go for you...
this is also why I say most probably. From my subjective view this all doesnt look like a murder. But the judge will have the final say. It doesnt matter what I or you think.
Dont get me wrong...you opened a biased topic from the very beginning...with the intention to badmouth the Greeks...you can do it...but then you must also be able to take it when you dish it out...and I was even not impertinent. Im no brute. I just said we mustnt prejudge anyone as long as his guilt hasnt been determined by the court...thats the way it works in constitutional states. Perhaps in Albania it works differently I dont know but Greece is not Albania.
Now if you have a problem with the way Im estimating the whole incident....then I tell you I have a problem with your disposition here, too..
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Apr 8, 2010 14:23:40 GMT -5
This was a PERSON, intended to be born by its parents as an addition to the family. I think this is specific case which should show some respect for that person and parents by doing funeral burial ceremony for this brutally killed unborn of little baby.
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Post by mystery on Apr 8, 2010 19:13:49 GMT -5
The fourth "person" was an unborn embryo, no person. Secondly, the other side states that the albanians started first...no need to judge anyone already now since the embryo was most probably not killed intentionally but as result of the quarrel with the woman itself who interfered in order to protect her husband...I cant read anything about repeated blows against her stomach....thats why the judge will decide what has really happened...not we....sad incident. Are you actually trying to defend these Greeks? WTF is wrong with you... If the victims were Greek and the attackers were Albanian you will be shouting barbarian, grunt and typical Albanian peasant.. I can't believe your actually trying to defend these attackers.
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Post by albquietman on Apr 8, 2010 22:17:16 GMT -5
Kastor, take that stupid greek patriotism out of your system when it comes to innocent people getting massacred and killed, because you're just ridiculing yourself and making people to hate your kind more.
And spare us your crappy attempts to try to justify your compatriots. If someone attacks a 4 year old boy, his father, his pregnant mother and kills her unborn child, he/she is a criminal, and should be given the capital sentence, no matter who started first...
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Post by todhrimencuri on Apr 9, 2010 0:09:59 GMT -5
Under US law, I dont know about Greek, but killing the fetus of a woman is considered murder even though she has the right to kill the fetus. If its at 8 months, then they could push for maximum punishment. Even at 5 months, it could still be considered murder under this circumstance.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 9, 2010 2:03:36 GMT -5
Yes, Greeks are the real victims here .. and I am being emotional here?
You were stating your own opinion and trying to back it up with legal formality. I do not know of a law which explicitly states as you said that someone's personality is 'complete' only the second it is born ,,, when logic dictates that there is little difference between the baby's cognitive and emotional abilities the moment it is in its mother's womb and the second it is out. If there is such a law, it is clearly a legal manouvre to cover the legitimacy of abortion ... because when it comes down to it, the unborn baby was a living being, a human being with a future. This despicable act robbed it of its future and existance. Your inability to even show regret and attempt to turn it around in order to defend a coward act such as this attack, is really low ...
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Post by Kastorianos on Apr 9, 2010 3:59:20 GMT -5
I didnt justify anyone...I just wont blame unconvicted Greeks in order to satisfy you people. You are all wrong with your accusations. Besides learn the difference between murder and homicide.... People take so easily the word murder in their mouth...without realling knowing what that is.
what kind of drugs are you taking?
Its often judicature...by civil law you become person with completion of birth (legal capacity)....thats even determinated by positive law. While by criminal law you become human with the labor pains which brake the water or with the beginning of the cesarean. But human =|= person.
No. There are "leges speciales" that do regulate cases of a killed embryo or fetus ("nasciturus" as it is called). They enjoy just partial legal capacity...which is enough to protect them from assault and battery etc...but you can not say four albanian persons were attacked...
blablabla...spare me that....its really unimportant spiel.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Apr 9, 2010 4:24:21 GMT -5
Guys...do you want to post over here all the incidents of crimes happening in Greece every day by Albanians ?
The above incident is sad...but spare us ore Albos...
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Apr 9, 2010 10:23:44 GMT -5
Yea, we albos spare greeks but you have to know that one hand wash another hand when things come to Myself Lord/God Sun_MYSUS Christ. Remember, free will is not free and you greek barbarics know that better than everyone else.
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