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Post by karl79 on Jun 4, 2010 9:13:07 GMT -5
Absolutly not. No chance to see them Slavs Greeting form Polnad.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 4, 2010 9:45:02 GMT -5
What the hell are you talking about? Christianity converted from the ground up and it did so during the early Dark Ages. Christianity was already entrenched in Europe during the Middle Ages which is why the Catholics were launching crusades at Pagans in the Baltic area and at Muslims in Iberia and Asia Minor. Learn some damned history, you leftist tool. I'd rather be a "leftist tool" than a delusional fool . I seriously don't know what you've read, that said people embraced Christianity with great joy, but I've never read such thing. Show me your source and I'll show you mine. i think you both have a point, it depends on the angle of viewing this. For the balkan Slavs, who managed from 540->800AD to retain a great degree of autonomy, Christianity + the more flexible cyrilic alphabet and the contact with roman civilization was a good thing. It was a choice. They retained many of their ancient customs (Slava, various myths, gods, perun, veles, etc...) For others, however, Christianity was enforced brutally. In Crete island, a truly Ancient Greek land, where Artemis was celebrated till 1500 AD, christianity was enforced by sword and great battles. I was like scratching my head when i made the most magnificent observation about this otherwise totally Greek place. *All* of the few Slavic toponyms in the island are 100% connected with vicious battles between the Ancient Greeks there and the Byzantine army which was comprised by Slav and Armenian troops. So for Slavs christianity was a choice, for Ancient greeks it was their sad doom.
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Post by thracian08 on Jun 4, 2010 12:07:51 GMT -5
Krivo, b/c Judaism is a race and a religion at the same time. If u wanted to become Jewish for example, u wouldn't be able to.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Jun 4, 2010 13:22:03 GMT -5
Back to the topic, An example of Middle Eastern/Arabic influence on Albanian music (and by default, culture) The childish sounding vocals and ridiculous dresses (the white skull-cap was initially from the sub-Saharan African tribes -why are Albanians wearing it?) only further reinforce their non-European roots. here is smth from my home land: its so f**king close... i love it... i cry when i listen to it... but its so f**king albanian... nothing close to yugoslav or ancient greek music (Cretan/Pontian). Albania's heritage, from Delvine: Its a song about a mosque/xhami of Gjin Aleksi. Delvinjote (girl of Delvine) by singer Jorgo Naci.
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Post by shqiptars on Jun 5, 2010 8:06:45 GMT -5
I'd rather be a "leftist tool" than a delusional fool . I seriously don't know what you've read, that said people embraced Christianity with great joy, but I've never read such thing. Show me your source and I'll show you mine. The only tribes which didn't embrace Christianity during the Dark Ages were the Nordic and the Baltic tribes. The former embraced it during the early Middle Ages and the latter were wiped out during the late Middle Ages. Learn your history, you ignoramus.
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Patrinos
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Post by Patrinos on Jun 5, 2010 8:55:36 GMT -5
here is smth from my home land: its so f**king close... i love it... i cry when i listen to it... but its so f**king albanian... nothing close to yugoslav or ancient greek music (Cretan/Pontian). Albania's heritage, from Delvine: Its a song about a mosque/xhami of Gjin Aleksi. Delvinjote (girl of Delvine) by singer Jorgo Naci. thats epirotika, and thats why they sound good. I find the traditional albanian music annoying tasteless... and i dont include the delviniotiki music in it of course...
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Post by shqiptars on Jun 5, 2010 9:29:29 GMT -5
Everything good about Shqiptar culture is stolen. Shqiptars have no culture to speak of.
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 5, 2010 10:45:44 GMT -5
oh great, again my favourite question: " Are these European" , "are those European?" And if the poll says they are, what do they get? The "Being European Certificate"?
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 6, 2010 5:57:26 GMT -5
^just wants to know what people think on this
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Post by shqiptars on Jun 6, 2010 8:26:39 GMT -5
It's a trick question, you see. It's like asking if Shqiptars are people.
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Post by Pavel Chernev on Jun 7, 2010 1:02:58 GMT -5
oh great, again my favourite question: " Are these European" , "are those European?" And if the poll says they are, what do they get? The "Being European Certificate"? Greetings friend, That sounds like something a non-European would say hehe! This has just been a study to see what people think of the Albanian nation. So far we have agreed that; - Albanians are geographically European Though it is undecided that; - Albanians are physically European - Albanians are culturally European To have the 'European certificate' you speak of, all three must be agreed/ Pozdrav, Pavel.
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Post by hellboy87 on Jun 7, 2010 1:26:59 GMT -5
Geographically,racially they are.Culturally? Some.You could apply the latter to Eastern Europeans as a whole,but maybe for the Albanians...the Islam thing may be it's non European factor.
But the Balkans itself is a bit different to the rest of Europe in that Islam has a presence of a few hundred years.
Again,they have still have that European bit found throughout Europe though.
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Post by shqiptars on Jun 7, 2010 2:36:38 GMT -5
If the Shqiptars are European then so are the Azerbaijani.
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Post by restless1gr on Jun 7, 2010 2:55:57 GMT -5
oh great, again my favourite question: " Are these European" , "are those European?" And if the poll says they are, what do they get? The "Being European Certificate"? Greetings friend, That sounds like something a non-European would say hehe! This has just been a study to see what people think of the Albanian nation. So far we have agreed that; - Albanians are geographically European Though it is undecided that; - Albanians are physically European - Albanians are culturally European To have the 'European certificate' you speak of, all three must be agreed/ Pozdrav, Pavel. My reaction to the question was that, because there is this "tradition" to call european culture the northern & western european culture, and because somehow, when this question is posed, there' s a european superiority in the air. According to the above, I m not european because I have southern european culture with cultural (music, food, vocabulary) & racial influences from Asia & Africa, since I m greek and my country is near these continents. But then again, I am European because my country is in Europe and because my country's history is related to the formation of the European culture. Anyway, to me, Europe is nothing more than a continent and every country that is in it is a European country with European people. Therefore, Albanians are European. Why do I believe this? Let's take America for example: If we take nationality & race as a measure, then the majority of americans are europeans (british, spanish, portugese, irish, italians, greeks, scandinavians etc) or africans, just because their immigration was relatively recent. If we take culture as a measure, american culture is a mixture of european & african culture, but mostly european. But north, central, south americans are not europeans. They are americans now, because they have been in America for many generations. Do you want to talk about australians? Even more "european" roots & feeling than americans. But can you call an aussie european? No, you can't. So if there are any criteria for being european, mine are geographical. And even if the criteria are geographical in some cases the whole thing turns absurd. Take Turkey for example: a small part is in Europe, and the rest in Asia. So, what are Turks??? European or Asian? In my oppinion being called european would be worthy if it added something to the european person without being so complicate to define. Unless you have an easy definition to the word european and an explanation why it is important to be called a european. If you do, I ll gladly listen. P.S.(FOR THE RECORD) look at this link. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_EuropeThe definition given is : "The European peoples are the various nations and ethnic groups of Europe. European ethnology is the field of anthropology focusing on Europe." According to this definition and list of groups there's no doubt about the geographical criteria.
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Post by Pavel Chernev on Jun 7, 2010 5:04:19 GMT -5
I guess you can say Europeaness is in the eye of the beholder.
And while this may be a sensitive issue for our Albanian friends, there are at least 16 people on this forum alone (or 50% of the general population) that see them in the non-European category.
Whilst there are 'blue eye, blonde' Albanians, the vast majority tend to display a blend of Middle Eastern/East Asian physical appearance with a culture more similar to Arabia/Sub-Saharan Africa than that of Europe proper.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Jun 7, 2010 5:27:47 GMT -5
I was watching a documentary called "Michael Palin's new Europe" a couple of years ago and, about Albania, he said: "Albania may be in Europe, but culturally they are eastern", or something to that effect. Yet he didn't say that about any other surrounding Balkan country.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 7, 2010 5:33:50 GMT -5
Restlessgr, kalimera, kai kali ebdomada,
since we are both writing in the Serbian forum, i think i must say that Serbs are the most racial-wise tolerant people in the balkans, one of their minister is muslim (Rasim Lajic) one other is called Sulejman, etc... Gypsies are respected, they are normal people there, Hungarians are acknowledged with schools/etc.. same with Slovaks, and a special kind of Ukranians the Rusini, Vlahs are acknowledged as a minority, albos in the south are acknowledged as a minority, hell even some 10s people in the south who like Bulgaria are self-proclaimed Bulgarians...
Serbs has the power to give all these freedoms...
On the other hand, Greece does not have this luxury, but what pisses me off, is that instead of shut the fuck up and accept the situation, we have pussies here like Kastor or Patrinos who try to make laugh of people they do not physically like, (like King). I find this silly, ugly and totally backwards.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jun 7, 2010 6:09:16 GMT -5
If the Shqiptars are European then so are the Azerbaijani. Azarbejcans are non-europeans like "Serbs", you can compare anything your deluzion nation (without language and culture) with Albanians....who are more european you newcomers shkavelli/srpski or Albanians. If serbs are non-european doesnt mean that other nations (even natives people like Albanians) are too.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jun 7, 2010 7:09:19 GMT -5
Prijes, when we and you were somewhere in Thrace/Minor Asia or Caucasus, Slavs were all over balkan, slavicizing every inch of balkan territory. No need to play theater anymore. If we were so great we would make some toponyms in our own language (Vlah/Greek/Alb), instead of leaving the original slav toponyms for 1500 years.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jun 7, 2010 7:43:07 GMT -5
Pyrros, when we ruled Balcan and Europe.....Slavs were just our slaves/parasites and nothing more.
Dont be ridiculous, History dont start since VII century and everyone know thats slavs invaded/settled in our territory.
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