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Post by terroreign on Dec 4, 2010 17:33:45 GMT -5
The gusla was never an instrument used by local Serbs from Kosovo. This instrument was typical in CG, southwest Serbia, Hercegovina & Lika. Again areas of true ethnic Serb affiliation and the craddle of Serbdom. Did the Bulgarian kingdom bring their own to settle Kosovo during the 9th-10th centuries, well before the Serbs/Montenegrin rulers took it after over 200yrs of rule from the Bulgarians?? Just playing devils advocate...but those are the facts. Figure out the origin of the Gorani and you'll have the answer to majority of Kosovo Serbs and Northern Macedonia. It was recorded that Gusle was played in the Nemanjici royal court. That was in Raska/Kosovo, not Dalmatia or Montenegro. The reason why most Kosovci do not traditionally play the Gusle could have something to do with Turkish opression (it's widely known that the turks forbid Gusle playing-as it facilitated uprisings, and was a source of education for the Serbs). Turks would often blind the Guslar's eyes, thus throughout history you have many blind Guslars, Filip Visnjic for instance. Also keep in mind that soon after 1389 Kosovo Serbs moved and settled into Montenegro (most of the Brda tribes find trace origin to Kosovo), and the Gusle is a core part of social life for all these tribes.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 5, 2010 7:06:40 GMT -5
Ljubo, Serbian Gromilas of the 6/7th century are found in Kosovo, Serbian jewellry from the 8 to 11th century is also found in kosovo. Serbian architecture of the 12th through to the 14th century can be found in the region. In conclusion, there were Serbs already present in kosovo before the BuLgari ruled over the region for the first time in late 9th to early 10th century, there was no evidence of BuLgari bringing over people to settle in kosovo....WHY?....because they found the region inhabited with Serbian Slavs. You must realise that the customs of the Vardarians is IDENTICAL to mountain Slavs of Old Serbia (kosovo i metohija) and Montenegro, i.e, weddings, slava, funerals, domestic and agricultural life. When the Bulgari ruled over the southern serbian people of todays Vardar and south serbia, they NEVER adopted the customs of the Serbs......the BuLgari always wanted to exterminate it, as they tried with the Vardarian Slava of the 19th century
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 6, 2010 3:52:50 GMT -5
continue the research professor Pyrrovic, and then write a book and go to demonstrate it in Anita Pania...sto Alter... tha kaneis trela noumera... esy, o alvanos Aisthisiakos, kai o Vas-Vas Paraskevas... ;D ;D ;D ;D An auta exeis mono na peis, eisai fovera aneparkis, empathis, paramythiasmenos, faidros, adeios kai .... ligos.... Den eisai Ellinas. Alvanos eisai ths kakias ths oras.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 6, 2010 3:58:20 GMT -5
Ljubo, Serbian Gromilas of the 6/7th century are found in Kosovo, Serbian jewellry from the 8 to 11th century is also found in kosovo. Serbian architecture of the 12th through to the 14th century can be found in the region. In conclusion, there were Serbs already present in kosovo before the BuLgari ruled over the region for the first time in late 9th to early 10th century, there was no evidence of BuLgari bringing over people to settle in kosovo....WHY?....because they found the region inhabited with Serbian Slavs. You must realise that the customs of the Vardarians is IDENTICAL to mountain Slavs of Old Serbia (kosovo i metohija) and Montenegro, i.e, weddings, slava, funerals, domestic and agricultural life. When the Bulgari ruled over the southern serbian people of todays Vardar and south serbia, they NEVER adopted the customs of the Serbs......the BuLgari always wanted to exterminate it, as they tried with the Vardarian Slava of the 19th century In all respect, if Ljubo had a happy marriage, now he would act like the king of Cetniks. Thats what i think, love is taken and given and drives every action of mankind.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 6, 2010 7:32:38 GMT -5
bla bla bla bla the Vlach penetration of Bosnian territory is a testified fact (unlike your kafeneio speculations of Serb immigrants from Bosnia, lol) supported by primary sources, onomastic and linguistic evidence as well as the fact that the term 'Vlasi' was used bla bla bla bla i will not comment on your bla bla's (you completely failed to reproduce my theory about the origin of today's Bosnians), but i wll ask you strictly on the above quote: ONOMASTIC EVIDENCE? ?? (btw do you know what this means? are you fancy of using greek terms you dont understand)? LINGUISTIC EVIDENCE? Pls show me some of this "ONOMASTIC" or "LINGUISTIC" evidence, cause in my book, there was never anything latin in the speech of Bosnians (Serbs/Boslims/Stokavica Croats). Now about the quality of the guy's books, all you have to do is view the comments on his books in amazon.... nuff said. I wonder what Noel would do if i stick my *OWN* toponymic research into his paid biased ugly face. PS i am paid in pussy? you cant hide your subzero cultural background.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 6, 2010 7:38:51 GMT -5
"Thats what i think, love is taken and given and drives every action of mankind."
Its true what you say man.
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Dec 6, 2010 10:30:24 GMT -5
Woooow, so not only are Gyrro and Pazar linguists, historians, and scholars, but now they are psychologists as well.. damn, I guess when you are a retard the possibilities are endless.
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Post by rusebg on Dec 6, 2010 18:15:03 GMT -5
Paid? No. You are just plain crazy. To make things easier for you - you are zero greek, null Serb and 0 human.
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Post by ljubotan on Dec 6, 2010 22:09:05 GMT -5
Pyrro -
I don't recall speaking with you about my ex marriage, but maybe I mentioned something on this board. Anyway, Pyrro, since you're neither a Macedonian Slav or Serb from any region, let me give you a tutorial.
First, any Macedonian Slav or Serb for that matter that wasn't planted in Kumanovo following 2nd Balkan War and WWI, never ever spoke Serbian! Second, Macedonians were always looked down on and made fun of their speech and demeanor. No one in ex Yugoslavia took them seriously nor considered them to be Serbs. My issue is the fact that for a group of Serbs living on th border with Kosovo, it's extremely odd that we have many 'everyday words' with bulgarians than with Serbs.
As far as my marriage to a Montenegrin women, well they and other Montenegrins considered Macedonians as foreign as say Germans. Being around their culture made me realize just how different Macedonians or Macedonian Serbs are from so called authentic Serbs. So, my marriage shed a lot of light on behaviors from Serbs West of Kosovo bu also western Serbia etc. Likewise, before I was even married I never acted like the king of chetniks. I'm very perceptive and I look for facts to justify my ethnicity, not some stubborn/hardheaded Serbian in Serbia that thinks everything is Serbian! Serbia claims macedonia as 'Serbian' because they want to have the biggest 'dk' in the region, not because they actually consider macedonians Serb.
Brother, you can talk all the crap you want about Bosnia, Nish etc., but you can't claim things in Macedonia as Serbian 'just because'. There needs to be proof and there isn't any in language, and that's mos important. That is the one fact that defines an ethnicity, and Torlak is an unofficial dialect.
Answer this smarty pants, if Macedonia was truly Serbian why the fk was it called by Serbians and labeled on maps by Serbians as 'Juzna Srbija'? They were indirectly even back then seperating them as southern Serbs, but when they incorported the Montenegrin Kingdom they didn't distingush her from Serbia on maps.
We in Macedonia regardless of ethnicity are very different than Serbians, by appearance, language, customs, mentality etc. This is the truth...you can't twist this because I'm from there and I know the people there better than you.
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Post by logjiktek on Dec 6, 2010 23:19:15 GMT -5
Pyrro - First, any Macedonian Slav or Serb for that matter that wasn't planted in Kumanovo following 2nd Balkan War and WWI, never ever spoke Serbian! Second, Macedonians were always looked down on and made fun of their speech and demeanor. No one in ex Yugoslavia took them seriously nor considered them to be Serbs. My issue is the fact that for a group of Serbs living on th border with Kosovo, it's extremely odd that we have many 'everyday words' with bulgarians than with Serbs. A Serb once said this to me: "Macedonian is like Serbian with a speech impediment." I could see how that could be viewed as an insult from your POV, but I literally laughed for a minute when I heard that. ;D
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 6, 2010 23:48:53 GMT -5
Pyrro - I don't recall speaking with you about my ex marriage, but maybe I mentioned something on this board. Anyway, Pyrro, since you're neither a Macedonian Slav or Serb from any region, let me give you a tutorial. First, any Macedonian Slav or Serb for that matter that wasn't planted in Kumanovo following 2nd Balkan War and WWI, never ever spoke Serbian! Second, Macedonians were always looked down on and made fun of their speech and demeanor. No one in ex Yugoslavia took them seriously nor considered them to be Serbs. My issue is the fact that for a group of Serbs living on th border with Kosovo, it's extremely odd that we have many 'everyday words' with bulgarians than with Serbs. As far as my marriage to a Montenegrin women, well they and other Montenegrins considered Macedonians as foreign as say Germans. Being around their culture made me realize just how different Macedonians or Macedonian Serbs are from so called authentic Serbs. So, my marriage shed a lot of light on behaviors from Serbs West of Kosovo bu also western Serbia etc. Likewise, before I was even married I never acted like the king of chetniks. I'm very perceptive and I look for facts to justify my ethnicity, not some stubborn/hardheaded Serbian in Serbia that thinks everything is Serbian! Serbia claims macedonia as 'Serbian' because they want to have the biggest 'dk' in the region, not because they actually consider macedonians Serb. Brother, you can talk all the crap you want about Bosnia, Nish etc., but you can't claim things in Macedonia as Serbian 'just because'. There needs to be proof and there isn't any in language, and that's mos important. That is the one fact that defines an ethnicity, and Torlak is an unofficial dialect. Answer this smarty pants, if Macedonia was truly Serbian why the fk was it called by Serbians and labeled on maps by Serbians as 'Juzna Srbija'? They were indirectly even back then seperating them as southern Serbs, but when they incorported the Montenegrin Kingdom they didn't distingush her from Serbia on maps. We in Macedonia regardless of ethnicity are very different than Serbians, by appearance, language, customs, mentality etc. This is the truth...you can't twist this because I'm from there and I know the people there better than you. Tru dat. Now look east and you ll see no big difference from anything Macedonian. The language is slightly different due to the serbian influence on Macedonian, but its still the same language, the people are the same, the culture is the same... Its no surprised that all Macedonian heroes identified as Bulgarian.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 7, 2010 3:34:38 GMT -5
Pyrro - I don't recall speaking with you about my ex marriage, but maybe I mentioned something on this board. Anyway, Pyrro, since you're neither a Macedonian Slav or Serb from any region, let me give you a tutorial. First, any Macedonian Slav or Serb for that matter that wasn't planted in Kumanovo following 2nd Balkan War and WWI, never ever spoke Serbian! Second, Macedonians were always looked down on and made fun of their speech and demeanor. No one in ex Yugoslavia took them seriously nor considered them to be Serbs. My issue is the fact that for a group of Serbs living on th border with Kosovo, it's extremely odd that we have many 'everyday words' with bulgarians than with Serbs. As far as my marriage to a Montenegrin women, well they and other Montenegrins considered Macedonians as foreign as say Germans. Being around their culture made me realize just how different Macedonians or Macedonian Serbs are from so called authentic Serbs. So, my marriage shed a lot of light on behaviors from Serbs West of Kosovo bu also western Serbia etc. Likewise, before I was even married I never acted like the king of chetniks. I'm very perceptive and I look for facts to justify my ethnicity, not some stubborn/hardheaded Serbian in Serbia that thinks everything is Serbian! Serbia claims macedonia as 'Serbian' because they want to have the biggest 'dk' in the region, not because they actually consider macedonians Serb. Brother, you can talk all the crap you want about Bosnia, Nish etc., but you can't claim things in Macedonia as Serbian 'just because'. There needs to be proof and there isn't any in language, and that's mos important. That is the one fact that defines an ethnicity, and Torlak is an unofficial dialect. Answer this smarty pants, if Macedonia was truly Serbian why the fk was it called by Serbians and labeled on maps by Serbians as 'Juzna Srbija'? They were indirectly even back then seperating them as southern Serbs, but when they incorported the Montenegrin Kingdom they didn't distingush her from Serbia on maps. We in Macedonia regardless of ethnicity are very different than Serbians, by appearance, language, customs, mentality etc. This is the truth...you can't twist this because I'm from there and I know the people there better than you. OTOH i was accepted in the BOSNIAN-SERB family like almost a SERB, and if i was from Makedonia or even Bulgaria the links would be greater, and the language barrier smaller. IMHO there only some people in Beograd who look down at others, and they are the minority. Makedonian/Kosovo music/culture was always high in ex-YU (Leb i So, Tose Proeski, Vlatko Stefanovski, Tocak covering Zajdi-Zajdi, etc.....) It is just that what you witnessed, is out of my sphere of experiences. My Bosnian wife even nearly kicked my ass, when i described Nis as a "gypsy" city, because of the large number of Roma. Maybe, you got into the most seljak montenegrins, who knows? PS wait a minute.... MACEDONIANS FOREIGN TO CRNAGORCI LIKE GERMANS? ?? I cannot believe that, even if you give me more than i make in 10 years. Epiros from Cyprus have more phonetic and lexical differences than Varna-Eastern Bulgaria with Rijeka-Croatia. How about food? Even in Bulgaria 90% of the food was like Serbian, of course the case in Greece differs every 50 km, the names differ, nothing is so massive like in the lands of Slavs. Man, i find very hard to understand your case. BUT, one thing i understand : That your enemies managed to break you down like nuts. PS2 gimme an example of how Makedonians were made a laughing stock in ex-yu. cause all i have heard are the opposite. PLS listen to this. I am in a country where, 99.999999999999999999% of the news about FYROM is negative propaganda. HOW COME AND I LOVE THIS NATION? (if my bosnian wife considers you a laughing stock as you claim? ) PLS Hold the slavic unity HIGH.... The snakes are waiting to eat you alive.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 7, 2010 6:57:23 GMT -5
OTOH i was accepted in the BOSNIAN-SERB family like almost a SERB, and if i was from Makedonia or even Bulgaria the links would be greater, and the language barrier smaller. Obviously you are not Serbian, Macedonian or Bulgarian speaker, if you are able to reach the abovementioned "conclusion". All the other bubling og gyrro have no relation to Macedonian and Serbian being totally alien languages (about Nish, his wife, his etc... nothing logical here). yes it foreign to the Montenegrins. Why someone should pay you? Why do u think your oppinion is valuable. You dont even speak Bulgarian or Serbian or Macedonian so in reality you should have no oppinion. so? Bulgaria, Serbia, Croatia: all those nations had their own states for centuries, their own traditions and their own identity. Lies. There are like 2-3 Serbian restaurants in Sofia. I went to a Serbian restaurant previous weekend. The kitchen is close but not identical with Bulgarian, we have no pleskaviza, we have kufte and kebab4e. As a whole I d say the kichen on the Bolkans is kind of similar and Bg and Sr dont make exception of course. u cant, u are no speaker of Bulgarian or Serbian or Macedonian ? is he reality THAT out of his mind? brainwashing by your serbian wife who feeds you constantly with velikoserbian propaganda ... etc. how serbs and maks are one and the same etc... etc... when the language shows maks are one and the same with the bulgarians.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 7, 2010 8:22:17 GMT -5
^ Ioan, bugger off, and stop brown nosing everything freaken here. This is for Pyrro and Ljubo, not you!.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 7, 2010 8:29:27 GMT -5
I m just trying to help ljubo.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Dec 7, 2010 8:33:25 GMT -5
By the way the Serbian restaurant in Sofia couldnt compare to the pleskavica I ate in Montenegro!!!! Yummy!!! Also, in Saraevo I ate some small kebabcheta with an arabic bread and onion. Yummy!!!! I actually like Montenegrin/Bosnian/Serbian food, its so good, but there is so much meat! In Bulgaria we dont eat that much meat.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Dec 7, 2010 8:34:37 GMT -5
The only former yugo person I have ever come across who looks down on Macedonians is... Ljubotan.
I should add, at least publicly.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 7, 2010 8:44:43 GMT -5
brainwashing by your serbian wife who feeds you constantly with velikoserbian propaganda ... etc. how serbs and maks are one and the same etc... etc... when the language shows maks are one and the same with the bulgarians. Come on dude, you know this aint true!
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ivo
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Post by ivo on Dec 7, 2010 10:08:50 GMT -5
Gyrro, don't pretend you're confused. You know it's exactly like that. You have a strong pro-Serbian, and pro-Serbian only, bias.
The BS you post is not supported by the international community. In fact, the vast majority of independent sources directly contradict your views.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Dec 7, 2010 10:39:07 GMT -5
Gyrro, don't pretend you're confused. You know it's exactly like that. You have a strong pro-Serbian, and pro-Serbian only, bias. The BS you post is not supported by the international community. In fact, the vast majority of independent sources directly contradict your views. i didnt get confused my brother. Ioan said that he considers my wife responsible for brainwashing me, and i replied that this is simply not true. I cannot see how someone could possibly think of anything related to pretension, here. Yes i have a strong pro-Serb bias, (and pro-slav, even pro-Bulgarian when needed : in short i hate lies and deception), but this has nothing to do with my wife, that's all i am saying. Now my wife buys Kacamak, and Griz from bulgo-markets cause she dont wanna go over to the Polish-Russian shops, she thinks that Bulgo-food is closer to ex-yu. (and i am the one behind this pro-bulgo stance). PS Bro, pls find a way to get rid of this: in every single post of yours. take care, all the best.
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